802 dies, no overload fault

[Ray70]

Can you maybe clarify or show how you have it wired up?
Are you running in 120/240 mode and putting individual 120V loads on L1 and L3?
If so, running an imbalanced load like that may be playing tricks on your ammeter.
Not sure what you mean by shop heater on 5000W pulling 80% on 1 leg??
You can't throw 5000W on 1 leg unless you are in 120V mode with all the load on L3.
Also, flipping S7 up while the set is already running may not activate it correctly, I believe you have to hold the fault test light button, start machine while holding it, flip up S7 then release the fault light button.

 

[Digger556]

Can you maybe clarify or show how you have it wired up?
Are you running in 120/240 mode and putting individual 120V loads on L1 and L3?
If so, running an imbalanced load like that may be playing tricks on your ammeter.
Not sure what you mean by shop heater on 5000W pulling 80% on 1 leg??
You can't throw 5000W on 1 leg unless you are in 120V mode with all the load on L3.
Also, flipping S7 up while the set is already running may not activate it correctly, I believe you have to hold the fault test light button, start machine while holding it, flip up S7 then release the fault light button.

I'm also curious about that. In 120/240V mode, you can only measure voltage on L1-L3 (240v) and L3-N (120V), amperage is always measured on L3. That shop heater is 240V, so it has to be wired L1-L3. I have the 2 of those units and voltage makes a huge difference in how much power they pull. On the 5 kW setting @ 220V, the heater pulls 5000 watts, at 240V, the heater pull nearly 6000 watts.

Also, I have 4 units ranging from a '94 Libby to an '09 Fermont, and none of them have in accurate % rated current gauge. They ones that work indicate around 75%-80% load at full rated output. (6250 W for 802a and 12500 W for 803a) How are you measuring amp draw accurately? If your load is not balanced, you could be getting bad info from the PRC meter. Get a good true RMS amp clamp. I noticed in your video, you have the voltage set to 220V, but the set is rated at 240V. If max amperage is 26A across L1-L3, the max wattage will be 5720 at 1.0pf or 4576 @ 0.8pf

The exhaust looks like my '94 Libby unit and its behavior is very similar to mine when overloaded. I suspect mine has gummed up rings or something, because even though it will hit 6200 watts, it struggles more than normal to start and recover from overload. I suspect lower than average compression and maybe your unit has a similar problem.

ETA: I re-watched your second video and you mentioned using a Kill-A-Watt meter. I would still go out and buy a quality amp clamp. I use lots of electrical test equipment and I have found greatly varied accuracy from most of what I purchase from Amazon or a box store. I usually test new equipment against a known good reference. Some stuff has come in at -15% accuracy, meaning you are pulling 17.6% more than indicated.

 

[justinn]

How did you remedy the sticky IP rack?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

Apologies.... somehow I missed this. After running the set with a can of Seafoam and a quart of ATF in the crankcase for about 30 minutes(in addition to a couple quarts of fresh oil) without load, oil came out less than ideal with a lot of gunk. Although it was a lower hour set(reset unit), it was obviously in a very humid climate for a long time and had a lot of surface rust and corrosion. After the "flush" the set was able to hold a higher load, but would start surging around 80% load, eventually dying.

I pulled all of the IP's and cleaned and blueprinted them so they moved freely and reinstalled. Again, everything improved a bit, but it would still surge after running for about 20 minutes at 80% load. It would hold 100% with light surge for a couple of minutes, then the frequency would increase and eventually drag it down to stall. Everything I was doing made a marginal improvement, but ultimately the same issue would arise. I tried adjusting the governor and after some mild frustration with absolutely zero difference in how the set was running, I ended up backing the spring completely off of the governor adjustment bolt. DOH

Finally, I took the front cover off of the engine(after removing radiator and tank along with the shrouds) and discovered corrosion on the forward rack linkage assembly that was causing it to stick. After thoroughly cleaning, I reinstalled the spring on the governor, and started troubleshooting. It turns out that one of the linkages would over extend when the unit was up to temp which rendered the governor worthless through the entire sweep. Once it cooled down it would then be back to normal until you got it up to temp again. If you ran the linkage back to closed, it would reset the linkage. With the front cover off(twice), I adjusted all of the linkages so it didn't make it past the sweep. If you look at the linkage diagram in the TM, you will see what I mean. Ultimately, this is what fixed the problem, but I had days into the troubleshooting. That said, it's now a tip top running set. I can only surmise that due to it being seized up, when the set was trying to adjust via the governor, it bent the linkage slightly, throwing it out of spec. It runs a 12k load now without so much as a hiccup.

Again, apologies about the delay in responding
Justin

 

[Ray70]

Good work! These are the troublesome failures that are much easier to diagnose when you have your hands inside the machine instead of on a keyboard!
Some of the strange things I've seen you would never think of telling someone to look for, without seeing it first hand.... Like the recent " governor spring hooked onto the pushrod instead of the end of the rack" if any of you recall that one!
Hands-on inside a machine is worth 1000+ words!

 

[Light in the Dark]

Good work! These are the troublesome failures that are much easier to diagnose when you have your hands inside the machine instead of on a keyboard!
Some of the strange things I've seen you would never think of telling someone to look for, without seeing it first hand.... Like the recent " governor spring hooked onto the pushrod instead of the end of the rack" if any of you recall that one!
Hands-on inside a machine is worth 1000+ words!

Listen, I think that modification was done to try to increase HP. If the mounting point is stationary, your HP is fixed... if you can speed up your mounting point, its gotta make like... +10HP. Faster is better, right?

 

[Ray70]

I suppose... either that or maybe the 900hz oscillation of the spring was mean to dampen any fluctuations in engine speed..... Humm..., that may have been the only "Precise" 802 ever produced.... as long as you only need idle speed and 45Hz??

 

[jimbo913]

There is no fuel leak presently, tho the were multiple when I received the unit. I see some residual behind the pumps...I've had to do multiple evolutions of degreasing on this machine, so I'm thinking that may be what you're seeing. It's going to get another bath once all the work is complete.

Yes, I was messing with the cable adjustment on its last run. I don't recall what it was set at, so I checked its function and took some fresh pics for you at no-load speed. I'll get another round of these for you (hopefully this afternoon) once I get the Seafoam going thru the tank and with a load.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

So what is the degreasing procedure on the 802 & 803A? If I want to clean up a new to me unit, is it safe to hose down or do I need to somehow block the generator head, especially at the vents?

 

[Jeepadict]

So what is the degreasing procedure on the 802 & 803A? If I want to clean up a new to me unit, is it safe to hose down or do I need to somehow block the generator head, especially at the vents?

I treated it like any other vehicle engine compartment, since it's the engine that makes the mess. Started with the auto store foaming degreaser, which never work anyways. Transitioned to Meguiars/3D Super Degreaser and a pressure washer, even that took a few rounds to get all the muck out. I didn't direct the stream of any liquid towards the gen head. Still struggling to get the fuel stains out of the exterior case paint.

If you're concerned, I'd just avoid spraying directly into the gen head...I have my serious doubts some moisture from a bath will do any notable damage.

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[Ray70]

When it comes to degreasing anything.... Hot water / steam ( even relatively low pressure ) will do 10X better than the strongest high pressure washer using cold water and any cleaner you can throw at it. I use an electric steam cleaner that probably only produces 1500 psi and really don't need any kind of cleaner at all to blast away oil and grease grime.
I never had any issues getting water inside the generator head, there's nothing in there that will get damaged before it drip dries!
I'd also suggest running it before and after cleaning to get things warmed up and then to help blow off the water and dry it off afterwards.

 

[Guyfang]

We ran them to get em hot, then washed them. If I had anything to say about it, we did it on Friday, and by Monday, all water was dried up. In the winter, if I had anything to say about it, the set was placed near a heater/radiator. Germany heats exclusively with hot water systems, for a stable heat in a work bay, and forced air to bump it up. So we just turned up the radiator, and left the set there. In the summer, outside. Let the sun take care of it. I would not worry much about water in the main gen. Just let it stand someplace dry for a few days. In the control cube/AC compartment, its a different deal. The K1, is a well know problem area, and water is the main problem/cause.

 

[Light in the Dark]

Purple Power

The leader in industrial and household cleaners and degreasers.

www.clean-rite.com

 

[2Pbfeet]

Purple Power

The leader in industrial and household cleaners and degreasers.

www.clean-rite.com

I don't know how much lye is in Purple Power, but it sure gets items clean. Wear skin and eye protection! I use it mainly as a pre-painting degreasing step.

All the best,

2Pbfeet