802a Hard Start - Thoughts?

[mbartho]

New to the group and I am looking at picking up my first genset. I have the opportunity to pick up a 802a at a pretty good price based on the current market. One issue, the guy who is selling stated it's really hard to get started in cold weather. He has only had it a few months and has not had the opportunity to try in warmer weather. He can usually get it started but it takes a few battery charges to get it started. But it seems once the unit is up to temp, if shut down, it will restart. I am not real familiar with these units or diesel engines but my first thoughts are a preheat issue or loss of prime issue? Is this the correct line of thought on the possible cause? Are there other more expensive issues that may be causing this problem? Just trying to gather some info and thoughts from those familiar with these units before deciding if it is worth the risk.

 

[Ray70]

Do you know what it is doing while trying to start? Is it smoking? If so what color? Is it cranking abnormally fast and smooth ( without the sound of strong compression )
How many hours on it?
What are you calling "Cold" weather? That unit would probably start even without the preheaters working down into the 20's I bet.
You could be looking at anything from dirty injectors to low compression to a bad fuel pump or a simple maintenance issue.
Could even be old/too thick of oil or a bad pressure relief valve on the oil pump.
We need more info to diagnose, but regardless of the root cause, are you getting it for a Fantastic price?
IF not I would probably steer clear if you are not familiar with diesels or these machines.
If it's not working correctly you need to buy it under the assumption of worst case.

 

[Chainbreaker]

I agree with everything Ray stated above. Also, you mention " ...it takes a few battery charges to get it started". Wondering if its due to old low voltage batteries & not holding a charge and perhaps it's impacting glow plug heat and starting RPMs?

 

[mbartho]

Do you know what it is doing while trying to start? Is it smoking? If so what color? Is it cranking abnormally fast and smooth ( without the sound of strong compression )
How many hours on it?
What are you calling "Cold" weather? That unit would probably start even without the preheaters working down into the 20's I bet.
You could be looking at anything from dirty injectors to low compression to a bad fuel pump or a simple maintenance issue.
Could even be old/too thick of oil or a bad pressure relief valve on the oil pump.
We need more info to diagnose, but regardless of the root cause, are you getting it for a Fantastic price?
IF not I would probably steer clear if you are not familiar with diesels or these machines.
If it's not working correctly you need to buy it under the assumption of worst case.

These are all great questions and currently, I do not have an answer to most of them. But I do understand these answers are needed to provide additional assistance. Temp-wise, my understanding is it was around 20 degrees outside. The unit has just under 100 hours. They are new batteries that are being cranked long enough when attempting to start that they are drained. He then manually charges them and tries again.

I would not consider it a fantastic price. I can pick it up for around $1500. I may be able to squeeze a bit more and get it lower. Everything I have been able to locate running is fetching $3-$4K currently.

I am not familiar with diesels but I am mechanically able. I have rebuilt engines and many pieces of machinery over the years. SO I am not afraid to gid into it and learn along the way. I just might need more resources than someone who is familiar with them.

I am going to try and gain some additional info but I am not sure if he will be able to provide more via phone/email. The unit is at a retail surplus supplier, something he picked up at an auction, so I don't think he knows much about it. It will likely come down to whether I am willing to make the 12 hour drive to take a close look at it. I seem to gravitate towards these types of things as I view them as a"challenge". Sometimes it works out for me. Sometimes, not so much.

 

[cuad4u]

This is not normal. I have a 803A with around 1500 hours. It will start without glow plugs within a second even if the temp is 25 degrees. I know my post will not help you find your problem, but it will give you an idea what to expect from the 802A and 803A generators that are "working right".

 

[robertsears1]

I only have 804s of the newer type MEPs. I believe this unit also has a Magnetic Pickup (MPU) and it may have collected some funk on the end and is not letting in enough fuel for starting. It should be puffing white smoke as you are trying to start. My 804 book says not to run the starter more than 15? Seconds at a time so the starter may be damaged by now. Other than it doesn’t run, $1500 isn’t so bad considering how nuts the prices on these sets have gotten. May be why you see so many folks buying 804s and higher sets these days.

Robert

 

[Guyfang]

Make the drive. Insist that the gen set is cold when you get there. The list of things that could be wrong, just like Ray wrote, needs to be looked at, one thing at a time. Simple things first. You could be getting a REAL good deal, if its a simple problem. But you could be getting a REAL bad deal if its a compression problem, or something along that line.

 

[dav5]

These are all great questions and currently, I do not have an answer to most of them. But I do understand these answers are needed to provide additional assistance. Temp-wise, my understanding is it was around 20 degrees outside. The unit has just under 100 hours. They are new batteries that are being cranked long enough when attempting to start that they are drained. He then manually charges them and tries again.

I would not consider it a fantastic price. I can pick it up for around $1500. I may be able to squeeze a bit more and get it lower. Everything I have been able to locate running is fetching $3-$4K currently.

I am not familiar with diesels but I am mechanically able. I have rebuilt engines and many pieces of machinery over the years. SO I am not afraid to gid into it and learn along the way. I just might need more resources than someone who is familiar with them.

I am going to try and gain some additional info but I am not sure if he will be able to provide more via phone/email. The unit is at a retail surplus supplier, something he picked up at an auction, so I don't think he knows much about it. It will likely come down to whether I am willing to make the 12 hour drive to take a close look at it. I seem to gravitate towards these types of things as I view them as a"challenge". Sometimes it works out for me. Sometimes, not so much.

Buy it. At that price you could part it out and get your money back even if it is a problem generator. And if it turns out it is OK with minor repairs you made a great deal.

 

[Daybreak]

Howdy,
It also could be not knowing how to start it properly.
MEP-80x startup routine | SteelSoldiers

Turn the S1 to prime and run, wait.... wait.... wait.... turn to start, and hold it there... oil pressure is up..ok release.

Cold weather starting
Turn the S1 to prime and run, wait.... wait.... wait.... turn back to preheat for a bit, now turn to start, and hold it there... oil pressure is up..ok release.

The priming is circular, the pump runs, and fills the lines, and any extra returns to the fuel tank. After changing fuel filters, you could leave it on (prime & run) for 2-4 minutes to fill up the filters. As the pump runs, you will hear a hollow sound, and then the fuel fills the lines, and the sound changes to a fuller sound.

Diesel engine starting = air / fuel / compression
air restricted?
fuel restricted?
compression issue?
Three things to think about.

You could also quickly pull the return fuel line while in (prime & run) and catch the fuel in a cup. If your getting fuel there, you at least know it is flowing to and thru the injectors.

NOTE: if you think you want to buy it. check for the fuse mod. The long running of the starter can cause a voltage spike which can damage the stator if the fuse mod is not in place.
MEP-802 and 803 Main generator tip. | SteelSoldiers

Take a multi-meter with you to check the voltage at the receptacles and lugs.

 

[Guyfang]

Like Daybreak, this is what I have been saying all along.

It ran until you ran it out of fuel. So its hard to conceive its restricted air. That leaves the last two. So I will repeat again. It ran until you ran it out of fuel. Compression would not seem to be the problem.

Diesel engine starting = air / fuel / compression
air restricted?
fuel restricted?
compression issue?
Three things to think about.

Fuel. That would seem to be the way I would start looking. Which is why I have been telling you to check the electrical problem. If L1 will not work, and stay energized during the whole starting process, then it wont start. When you determine that it cant be that, then its time to start looking at fuel, and from that I mean from the day tank to the injector. This gen set is notaries for being a hard one to bleed air from the system.

Have you done anything else to it since it run out of fuel?. The FL1/FL2 should have shut the set off before it ran dry in the fuel system, daytank to injector. If it was ran dry, the daytank float didnt work, or you ran in in battle short mode.

 

[Jeepadict]

@Guyfang he hasn't bought it yet...he's just going off what he was told before he road trips to go look at it.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

 

[Ray70]

Guy is thinking of the other thread with the 005 who ran it out of fuel and now can't get it to start.
Sometimes these threads all run together in our minds!

 

[Guyfang]

Indeed! Thats what I was thinking. Now need to transfer that thought over.