803A droop adjust screw?

[Waterhouse]

Once you have all 4 pumps oriented correctly test it again.
If you still have the same problem, loosen the jam nuts on the stop screw that the the shut off lever hits when the solenoid pushes it forward.
(If the screws are in the original setting they typically have red indicating compound on the threads)
Back the screw out about 1 turn and retest and see if there is an improvement.
Given the info now, I'd say 1 or more metering pump plungers is not turning quite far enough to completely shut off the fuel flow, allowing just a little fuel to still reach the injector(s)
Rotating the metering pumps counterclockwise and loosening the stop screw will both help ensure the pumps are in the full off position when the solenoid pushes out.

I will adjust the pumps to be against the pushrod tubes, although I think I have had them real close already. The stop screw is safety wired. I was going to cut the wire when I noticed that the lever stops just short of it. Like I can slip a piece of paper between the screw and the lever. So adjusting it won’t make any difference.

 

[Waterhouse]

Just a thought. You may want to remove the droop adjust plug and manually move the FSS from Run position to the Stop position and see if the end of the rack quickly moves all the way to the stop position (left) or if it slowly moves to the stop position due to a possibly sticky injection pump.

Are you talking about the rack inside that controls the pumps? How would I know if it was moving fast or slow? The lever on the outside moves quick, but it’s only connected by a spring inside.

 

[Ray70]

I think you may have 1 pump adjusted differently than the others, causing the rack to stop short of the screw and holding the other pumps slightly open.
On the rack motion, I don't think it's possible for the rack to really hang up or move slowly ( due to a sticky pump lever etc.) IF the outside lever is being pushed immediately to the closed position by the solenoid.
The rack is pulled open by a spring connection, but the rack is pushed closed ( forward ) by a mechanical lever attached to the inside of that lever the solenoid pushes against, so the only potential failure would be a problem with the screw that holds the inner and outer halves of that shut-off lever together, which I did see once, the inner lever was not indexed to the end of the shaft correctly ( its a D-flat on the end of the shaft into a D-shaped hole in the lever ) which also caused the engine to not shut off when the lever was fully against the stop screw.

 

[Waterhouse]

I think you may have 1 pump adjusted differently than the others, causing the rack to stop short of the screw and holding the other pumps slightly open.
On the rack motion, I don't think it's possible for the rack to really hang up or move slowly ( due to a sticky pump lever etc.) IF the outside lever is being pushed immediately to the closed position by the solenoid.
The rack is pulled open by a spring connection, but the rack is pushed closed ( forward ) by a mechanical lever attached to the inside of that lever the solenoid pushes against, so the only potential failure would be a problem with the screw that holds the inner and outer halves of that shut-off lever together, which I did see once, the inner lever was not indexed to the end of the shaft correctly ( its a D-flat on the end of the shaft into a D-shaped hole in the lever ) which also caused the engine to not shut off when the lever was fully against the stop screw.

Good info,

So today I turned all the pumps right against the pushrod tubes. Then I pushed the fuel lines on. This was very difficult because only a little of the nipple is sticking out from the pushrod tube. I started it up and it might have run better. It still seems to be running too fast for no load and the freq adjust knob has no effect. When I shut it off, it seemed to shut down pretty fast.

I looked at the lever to the stop screw and it was like .100” away. It could not be rotated closer. I knew that it was just a piece of paper wide before, so something was up. I loosened the pump locks again and backed them up just enough to get the lever to almost touch the stop screw. This was good because now I could install the fuel lines proper.

I started it two more times and shut it off with the knob and the E-stop button. It seemed to stop good. Then I started it and let it run for awhile. I was fooling with the freq knob and was getting nowhere. I shut it off with the S1 and it was slow to shut down. Not near as bad as before, but not great.

I started it again and it was running terrible. I don’t know what happened. It was hunting on speed and quit. I started it again and noticed the selinoid was pushing to shut off when it was running. I removed the selinoid completely from the lever and started it. It still ran terrible. Boy, this thing is being a pain. I had to quit working on it and go to something else. I’ll get back on it in a few days.

 

[Ray70]

Did you notice any fault lights on while the solenoid was trying to shut it down?
If there is a fault found, the relay will kill power to the solenoid to shut the machine down.
The issue with the throttle knob not having any effect still points towards a governor / fuel rack / metering pump binding problem.
With the solenoid removed the lever should spring clockwise ( rack moves to full fuel flow )
By hand you should be able to easily rotate it counterclockwise until it hits ( in your case almost hits ) the stop screw.
During this motion you should feel 2 distinctly different amounts of resistance. at first it will move freely, then you will feel slightly more resistance, but it should still move easily.
You may want to remove the front timing gear cover again or remove the governor adjustment plug to get another look inside.
I've seen issues with the governor / rack springs not being installed correctly, which caused the throttle to be inoperable.
Not sure if it could cause an issue shutting off or not. On the other offenders it did not.
One way or another you have a problem with fuel delivery, either metering pump / rack / governor, something within the fuel metering system is not right.

 

[Waterhouse]

Some times I have seen a oil pressure fault light, but not always. The oil pressure runs about 25-30 psi which doesn’t sound good, but it will keep the light off. The lever will rotate freely with the selinoid disconnected. (It is lightly spring loaded to go full fuel.) Not sure about two “resistance levels”. I’ll check on that. I hate to pull that cover again and it all seemed good in there, but I may have to.

Im no diesel mechanic, but I’m wondering if the one or more injection pumps are not shutting off completely. Maybe it’s giving too much fuel all the time causing the high rpm. I have a rpm guage I could hook up. Do you know what rpm it’s suppose to run? Is there any test I can do to one of these pumps? Could there be a problem right at the injector?

 

[Ray70]

The oil light should stay off above 18 PSI, but the gage is not the determining factor and could be inaccurate. There is a pressure sensor near the gage sending unit that triggers the low oil pressure shut down.
RPM should be 1800 ( 60Hz on the gage ) RPM is directly responsible for AC frequency, so if you Hz gage is working you want to be between 60 and 61.5 at no load.
The issue is that your throttle knob has no effect on engine speed you mentioned. The throttle is directly connected to the governor spring, that's how RPM is set, then the governor tries to maintain that set RPM regardless of engine load, by moving the rack
Reading back I see your high cylinder temp issue seemed to follow the metering pumps when you moved them around.
I assume you never did buy new or rebuild them?
You could have an issue with 1 or more metering pumps, but probably not an injector issue, especially if the problem follows the pumps.

Another SS member recently had a similar issue with his pumps. If I recall he ended up replacing them because he couldn't determine how to properly index the plunger with the housing after disassembly.
Below are a couple threads you might want to read.

MEP 802a Injection Pump no output

I have, as so many have had, a low hour mep 802a that will not start likely due to stuck injection pump. My question is whether there are any items I have missed prior to removing and cleaning the pumps. I have emptied and cleaned the tank. Installed new drain and draw straw fittings. Fuels...

www.steelsoldiers.com

New to Mep-803A ownership general questions

OK, it became a strategic postponement tonight because i put the battery tenders on both battieries after the first inital tries to renew them for tomarrows attempts. After spending so much time going this far; that iniatall start up is DANG gut wrenching haha

www.steelsoldiers.com

 

[Waterhouse]

Now that I got the pump pins correctly in the rack, it appears the cylinders running equal and not so hot. (At least with a laser temp gun. Sometimes my HZ guage is working and sometimes not. When it is running smooth, the guage is around the 62 HZ, but still no control with the knob. On my 5KW, it is very persice. When it was running bad the guage was swinging from stop to stop.

I’m guessing I have to pull that gearcase cover and check the spring that goes to the HZ cable. It seems like it must be not installed right. The time I looked in there I was expecting something to jump out at me. I was happy that it all looked OK. Now I think someone was working on it and maybe hooked the spring to the wrong place. So it’s not obvious wrong. (to me) To be honest, when I had it apart, I really didn’t understand it very good. My understanding of the system is better now. Also, I have this bore scope thing that I can look around in there better.

 

[Guyfang]

Now that I got the pump pins correctly in the rack, it appears the cylinders running equal and not so hot. (At least with a laser temp gun. Sometimes my HZ guage is working and sometimes not. When it is running smooth, the guage is around the 62 HZ, but still no control with the knob. (If you have no control with the knob, have someone turn it fully in one direction, and then the other. You look at the where the cable hooks to the gov. control. If it doesn't move, then your cable is defective. And this happens sometimes. Turning the knob is the fine adjustment. Pressing in the center button on the knob, allows you to pull or push on the knob and make large adjustments to the engine speed.) On my 5KW, it is very persice. When it was running bad the guage was swinging from stop to stop. (Then the engine speed should be also be going up and down. You should be able to hear it.)

I’m guessing I have to pull that gearcase cover and check the spring that goes to the HZ cable. (Check the cable first) It seems like it must be not installed right. The time I looked in there I was expecting something to jump out at me. I was happy that it all looked OK. Now I think someone was working on it and maybe hooked the spring to the wrong place. So it’s not obvious wrong. (to me) To be honest, when I had it apart, I really didn’t understand it very good. My understanding of the system is better now. Also, I have this bore scope thing that I can look around in there better.

If your multimeter can measure hertz, stick the probes in the 120 volt outlet. Start the set. If you are reading 60 hertz, then the engine can only be running at 1800 RPM. Do not assume its running too fast, check it.

 

[Waterhouse]

Now that I got the pump pins correctly in the rack, it appears the cylinders running equal and not so hot. (At least with a laser temp gun. Sometimes my HZ guage is working and sometimes not. When it is running smooth, the guage is around the 62 HZ, but still no control with the knob. (If you have no control with the knob, have someone turn it fully in one direction, and then the other. You look at the where the cable hooks to the gov. control. If it doesn't move, then your cable is defective. And this happens sometimes. Turning the knob is the fine adjustment. Pressing in the center button on the knob, allows you to pull or push on the knob and make large adjustments to the engine speed.) On my 5KW, it is very persice. When it was running bad the guage was swinging from stop to stop. (Then the engine speed should be also be going up and down. You should be able to hear it.)

I’m guessing I have to pull that gearcase cover and check the spring that goes to the HZ cable. (Check the cable first) It seems like it must be not installed right. The time I looked in there I was expecting something to jump out at me. I was happy that it all looked OK. Now I think someone was working on it and maybe hooked the spring to the wrong place. So it’s not obvious wrong. (to me) To be honest, when I had it apart, I really didn’t understand it very good. My understanding of the system is better now. Also, I have this bore scope thing that I can look around in there better.

If your multimeter can measure hertz, stick the probes in the 120 volt outlet. Start the set. If you are reading 60 hertz, then the engine can only be running at 1800 RPM. Do not assume its running too fast, check it.

I have checked the cable. I can open the door and see the cable / cam thing move when I turn the knob.

When the HZ needle was swinging, the engine was running bad, but it didn’t seem to be running as wild as the needle was swinging.

Probably be a couple days till I can work on it again. I will update this.

 

[Waterhouse]

If you are reading 60 hertz, then the engine can only be running at 1800 RPM. Do not assume its running too fast, check it.

So I started thinking about this. The HZ guage only goes from 55 to 65. If 1800rpm = 60hz than I guess 55 to 65 represents only 1650 to 1950 rpm. So the engine doesn’t have to run all that bad to swing the needle full scale. (Or am I thinking wrong here?)

 

[2Pbfeet]

Frequency gauges don't have a great reputation for accuracy. If it were me, I would use a frequency (Hz) sensor on a DVM, or hook up a dedicated one, and plug it in to the convenience outlet. I wired up an inexpensive digital one to an extension cord as a portable monitor for generators. It is daylight readable, and very bright at night. Something like this;

Amazon.com

Yes, you are right in thinking that the panel frequency meter does only cover, a small, but important range of engine speeds, but I would not assume it is accurate. Trust, but verify...

All the best,

2Pbfeet

 

[Ray70]

So I started thinking about this. The HZ guage only goes from 55 to 65. If 1800rpm = 60hz than I guess 55 to 65 represents only 1650 to 1950 rpm. So the engine doesn’t have to run all that bad to swing the needle full scale. (Or am I thinking wrong here?)

I think the bigger issue is that you have no control over your engine speed / frequency. It doesn't matter how far off you are, something is wrong.
In one of your pictures it looked like you were down against the low speed throttle stop. There is no way the engine should be at ~1950 HZ with the throttle essentially closed.

 

[Waterhouse]

So I finally pulled the front cover and everything looks good with the governor and throttle rack. The springs look good and correct.

Question, is there any reason I can’t run this for a few minutes with out this cover. I know the fan/water pump won’t be turning, but I’m thinking for less than a minute I could see the governor working and the throttle rack .

 

[Ray70]

The engine will run just fine, but you'll probably take an oil shower if not careful.
The gears will be flinging oil all over the place.

 

[Waterhouse]

So I finally got some where with this thing. I put the cover back on and I turned all the fuel pumps back as far as the fuel line would allow. I started it and it ran kind of bad and smoked. But, I was able to turn the control knob and adjust the speed.

After it was running for maybe 30 seconds, I touched the exhaust manifold at the rear most cylinder. Cold. So was the the manifold next to it. I touched the front middle cylinder manifold and it was hot. The front cylinder was sizzling hot. I figure it was doing all the work. Next I cracked the nut on that fuel pump. It started spraying fuel of course. But the generator suddenly ran much better and it stopped smoking.

 

[Waterhouse]

So I pulled the hose that feeds the injection pump and plugged it. Started the generator and it runs great. I can dial up and down the rpm. Closed the doors and she runs quiet and no smoke. Hooked some load on it and it powers stuff up as normal. I didn’t have a setup to put a serious load on it, but I’m sure it works. Also, I almost forgot to mention, the generator shuts down with the switch as it should. I'm guessing it would only make 7 KW with one cylinder down. If I never get it working perfect, I’m good with that.

Now that doesn’t mean I’m not going to try to fix it, but at least I don’t feel like I blew a bunch of money on nothing. Obviously, that cylinder is getting too much fuel. I have verified the control pin is in the rack, so either the pump needs shimmed or it is defective. The manual makes a big deal about the shims. I could see them being important to a smooth running machine, but I can’t see it making this much differnce. I’m thinking the pump is bad. can they be rebuilt or are new ones available?

 

[Ray70]

I'd be more inclined to think that cylinder has it's injector stuck open or at least leaking badly. In my experience the perfect shim thickness on the pump is not as critical as they make it seem. When in doubt, 2 black shims seems to always work without a problem.
The pump could be bad, and they are rebuildable and new ones are available, but a bit pricey, so I'd verify the injector is good first, if you haven't done so already.

 

[Light in the Dark]

Take the hard line on the problem cylinder, off the metering pump and see if its pumping fuel while running. If it is, as Ray points out, look to the injector next. That can also be tested installed, but removed from the head with the hard still attached.

You will want to figure out what isnt wrong with that jug first before throwing money at it.

 

[Waterhouse]

I'd be more inclined to think that cylinder has it's injector stuck open or at least leaking badly. In my experience the perfect shim thickness on the pump is not as critical as they make it seem. When in doubt, 2 black shims seems to always work without a problem.
The pump could be bad, and they are rebuildable and new ones are available, but a bit pricey, so I'd verify the injector is good first, if you haven't done so already.

If the injector is stuck open, it would leak all the fuel it gets from the pump. So why would it get way more fuel than the other three pumps? These are hydraulic pumps, so they should all deliver approximately the same fuel. Since the fuel is not really compressible, it all goes in the cylinders. I agree, a leaky one might not have a good spray pattern, but I dot see that making its cylinder do all the work. (I think the opposite might occur)

On the other hand, if the pump was delivering lots of fuel all the time regardless of the control pin location, the governor would shut down the other pumps and those cylinders would run cold. Make sense?