803a ground wire burnt

[bzackrie]

I just bought a 803a that has a burnt up ground wire. It is burnt up from the tb4 9 through the power connector and then on the 8. Some of the wires that were around those wires had some burning but they look clear to me that they weren't the problem, just collateral damage. My question is does anybody have any suggestion or reasoning as to why this might have burnt up. It looks like it's just a ground wire. Also, can somebody explain to me the k20 circuit, does power come from that triangle a because I can't find where another triangle a anywhere. Also the triangle b looks like it goes to ground on tb2. Is that correct? Seems like a short to me. Generator only has roughly 300hrs so I'm hoping it's not going to be too bad getting it going.

Thank you in advance!

Brandon

 

[bzackrie]

Nvm, I figured out the triangles are for the diagnostic ports. I still dont see how the k20 circuit works though. I see the oil pressure switch is NC do when we have pressure it opens up? How does k20 stay energized then because it looks like it's aparr5of the circuit for the fuel pump to be on also.

 

[kloppk]

I see the admin approved your account

The OP switch is closed when there is no oil pressure and open when there is adequate oil pressure.
K20 works like this...
When you have S1 in START K15 closes and the oil pressure builds and the OP switch opens.
K12 the Fault relay provides 24 volts to a K15 contact and a K12 contact. When K15 closes it provides 24 volts to the K20 coil causing K20 to close.
When K20 closes it has a pair of contacts that provides 24 volts from K12 to the coil of K20 latching it closed.
When you release S1 back to prime run K20 stays close due to it's set of latching contacts.
If an oil pressure fault occurs the OP switch closes sending 24 volts to the Fault monitor. That in turn causes K12 to close causing the generator to shut down.
The confusing part of figuring this out is that the schematic is that this set of relay contacts circled in red are part of K15 but appears at first look to be part of K20.

Other K20 contacts are also responsible for enabling contactor closure when oil pressure is up.

 

[kloppk]

On the side of the wire should be a wire number stenciled on it. It should read "100xxx".
What is the wire number?
The first x is the wire number. The next two x's are the wire gauge.

" tb4 9 through the power connector and then on the 8 "
What do you mean by "the 8"? What terminal is the wire connected to behind the gauge panel?

 

[bzackrie]

On the side of the wire should be a wire number stenciled on it. It should read "100xxx".
What is the wire number?
The first x is the wire number. The next two x's are the wire gauge.

" tb4 9 through the power connector and then on the 8 "
What do you mean by "the 8"? What terminal is the wire connected to behind the gauge panel?

Ok, the path that the wire is burnt is TB4-9 100T(P6-31) that wire goes to the P6-31 connector terminal 31 still wire number 100T. It goes thru the P6/J6 amphenol connector and coming out the connector it is wire number 100C(TB5-. It lands on TB5-8. So basically TB4-9 wire through the connector and landing on TB5-8 that wire insulation is burned up. It doesn't appear that it continues on being burnt anywhere else. Other wires that were in that same bundle look like that had some heat damage but I think it was from the completely burnt up wire. I don't know the gauge right now since I am at work but I will try to relook at it when I get home. I am 100% percent positive that it is the correct wire because I ohmed it out in the amphenol connector which was pin 31 on both ends. I can't remember if I was able to read a wire number off of it since it was burnt up but I will re check when I can.

Thank you for all the help.

Brandon

 

[bzackrie]

I also noticed that some of the fork connectors are blue and some are yellow unlike the rest of the them which are clearish. This leads me to believe that those wires aren't original so I think I am going to ohm those out to make sure they are landed in the correct spots.

 

[kloppk]

Brandon,

That wire is the ground that feeds everything in the control cube behind the gauges.
Ground then fans out from TB4-7,8,9 & 10 to everything that needs a ground.

In a couple of the pics it looked like that wire was not in the original wire harness but floating about in the control cube on it's way to TB4.

 

[bzackrie]

Brandon,

That wire is the ground that feeds everything in the control cube behind the gauges.
Ground then fans out from TB4-7,8,9 & 10 to everything that needs a ground.

In a couple of the pics it looked like that wire was not in the original wire harness but floating about in the control cube on it's way to TB4.

Yeah, I knew it was a ground just couldn't see why that wire may have burnt up. Maybe one of the relays or something shorted out and since that it the main ground that carries everything back it was too much. I got all my relays in last week (except s14, should be here today), all the relays were missing , K1 contactor was gone and the FU1 cap was missing. Everything else seems to be there.

Thank You.

 

[kloppk]

I sell the S14's and the other relays for probably a lot less than you paid.

 

[bzackrie]

I bought the S14 relay from you through ebay. I didn't know you sold the other relays so I bought some off of automation direct. I'll be changing the relays and relay bases.

 

[Guyfang]

I also noticed that some of the fork connectors are blue and some are yellow unlike the rest of the them which are clearish. This leads me to believe that those wires aren't original so I think I am going to ohm those out to make sure they are landed in the correct spots.

I will jump in here shortly. Yes, the blue fork connectors are "new" to the set. You are correct to want to see where those wires go also. Someone may have tried to "Repair" other burnt wire damage, and when they were done and tried to start the set, further damaged it. Hence the burnt wires. The yellow fork connectors seen in your pictures are original. They are in the main, AC wires and a larger gage wire. There are even a few red ring connectors to be seen, (K1 wires) but as far as I remember, they too are original.

 

[jamawieb]

I just bought a 803a that has a burnt up ground wire. It is burnt up from the tb4 9 through the power connector and then on the 8. Some of the wires that were around those wires had some burning but they look clear to me that they weren't the problem, just collateral damage. My question is does anybody have any suggestion or reasoning as to why this might have burnt up. It looks like it's just a ground wire. Also, can somebody explain to me the k20 circuit, does power come from that triangle a because I can't find where another triangle a anywhere. Also the triangle b looks like it goes to ground on tb2. Is that correct? Seems like a short to me. Generator only has roughly 300hrs so I'm hoping it's not going to be too bad getting it going.

Thank you in advance!

Brandon

Hey Brandon welcome to the group. I see you're from Dyer County TN, I'm just south in Ripley. I see you got the unit out of Hopkinsville KY, congrats. I think you got your answer to everything so far. If you need anything, I have part units and if I don't have it, I can lead you in the right direction.

 

[bzackrie]

Hey Brandon welcome to the group. I see you're from Dyer County TN, I'm just south in Ripley. I see you got the unit out of Hopkinsville KY, congrats. I think you got your answer to everything so far. If you need anything, I have part units and if I don't have it, I can lead you in the right direction.

Thank you I appreciate that. I'm in Dyersburg.

 

[robson1015]

" Let's Go Brandon" !

 

[bzackrie]

Generator is running, thank you guys for all the help. I had a k1 contactor (aftermarket) that I installed and messed it up. Does anybody have one for sale? Other thing I noticed is that my frequency meter is wrong. It's showing 65 hz but measured with my meter I have 60. I have tried adjusting the hz meter and it doesn't really move it much. Are these known to go bad?

 

[bzackrie]

Do they smoke while running? It's not alot I wouldn't say but I do see it coming out of the exhaust. Engine sounds and runs great though. Starts right up.

 

[Light in the Dark]

I might have a K1 out of an 803 I just parted. I have not tested it yet though.

 

[bzackrie]

I might have a K1 out of an 803 I just parted. I have not tested it yet though.

Ok thank you, also an a7. Frequency transducer, that might be my problem.

 

[Ray70]

Once running your machine shouldn't really smoke at all with the exception of when it is approaching , at or above full load.
Another reason for light black / gray smoke is excess carbon built up in the muffler.
The typical procedure is to load it up to 25%, run it for 1/2 hour, then step up the load to like 50%, run another 1/2 hour, then keep repeating up to 100%
If you had carbon in the muffler this progressive loading will heat everything up and burn it out.
If you don't have clear exhaust after that, you may have something else going on, mis-adjusted metering pump, sticky injector etc.

 

[bzackrie]

Once running your machine shouldn't really smoke at all with the exception of when it is approaching , at or above full load.
Another reason for light black / gray smoke is excess carbon built up in the muffler.
The typical procedure is to load it up to 25%, run it for 1/2 hour, then step up the load to like 50%, run another 1/2 hour, then keep repeating up to 100%
If you had carbon in the muffler this progressive loading will heat everything up and burn it out.
If you don't have clear exhaust after that, you may have something else going on, mis-adjusted metering pump, sticky injector etc.

Ok thank you for the help.