86 M1009 water fording ideas

[rustystud]

Oh yea, now I remember why I set up my 1028 for deep water. Harvey is doing a good job. This is life in Houston!

If that is your only justification for having a deep water fording kit installed then you have failed. You had plenty of warning to leave the area, so anyone still there is really asking for it. I know I will probably get flack for that statement, but honestly there is no excuse for anyone to be in the path of this thing. Property can be replaced, your life or the lives of your family cannot.
Now if you feel you cannot live without having a fording kit installed in your truck, then buy an older "true" military truck designed to have a fording kit installed. Really the CUCV was just a standard civilian truck with a few extras installed for the military. It is not in the same league as a M35 or M37 or any other "M" series truck.

 

[ken]

I have not failed. Both my M1028 and my M35A2C with a original fording kit have preformed flawsly in this mess. And they have also in TS Allision, Hurricane Ike, among other floods. As a volunteer fire fighter I am tasked with helping others. That I have done. I have prepaired my 1028 and M35 the best I can for these days as they happen. Yes My 35 is my preferred vehicle, but two trucks working is better than one. You use what you have. If it floods out. Oh well I can fix it. I recently purchased a M998 with a bad motor. Some day it too will be tasked to get wet.
Yes people should have left. But didn't because the moron of a Mayor told everyone on TV repeatedly to stay home!!!

 

[rustystud]

I have not failed. Both my M1028 and my M35A2C with a original fording kit have preformed flawsly in this mess. And they have also in TS Allision, Hurricane Ike, among other floods. As a volunteer fire fighter I am tasked with helping others. That I have done. I have prepaired my 1028 and M35 the best I can for these days as they happen. Yes My 35 is my preferred vehicle, but two trucks working is better than one. You use what you have. If it floods out. Oh well I can fix it. I recently purchased a M998 with a bad motor. Some day it too will be tasked to get wet.
Yes people should have left. But didn't because the moron of a Mayor told everyone on TV repeatedly to stay home!!!

I saw that ! Here the "governor" is saying to leave and then the mayor says to "hunker-down" and stay home ! I hope he is kicked out of office ! What an idiot !
About your truck. You have a "specific" need for a fording kit installation on your CUCV. Most do not. It is an "expensive" and time consuming process to convert one of these (CUCV's) to be able to ford deep water. Since there is no way to keep water out of your automatic TH400 you must drain and flush it out every time you go deep. Since water destroys clutch plate material your probably rebuilding it every time you go swimming aren't you. I know you can lie and say you've never rebuilt the transmission, but be honest here with us. There is no way to keep water out of that front oil seal. Also we haven't even touched on the transfer-case or differentials. Of course they can take water in them better then the transmission can.
Anyway, stay safe ! Don't let any crocodiles drag you away !

 

[Drock]

I saw that ! Here the "governor" is saying to leave and then the mayor says to "hunker-down" and stay home ! I hope he is kicked out of office ! What an idiot !
About your truck. You have a "specific" need for a fording kit installation on your CUCV. Most do not. It is an "expensive" and time consuming process to convert one of these (CUCV's) to be able to ford deep water. Since there is no way to keep water out of your automatic TH400 you must drain and flush it out every time you go deep. Since water destroys clutch plate material your probably rebuilding it every time you go swimming aren't you. I know you can lie and say you've never rebuilt the transmission, but be honest here with us. There is no way to keep water out of that front oil seal. Also we haven't even touched on the transfer-case or differentials. Of course they can take water in them better then the transmission can.
Anyway, stay safe ! Don't let any crocodiles drag you away !

Forgive my ignorance, but didn't the HMMWV's have TH400's in them? And to best of my knowledge they're set up for deep fording. At least I've seen video's of the Military doing so in training.

 

[ken]

Drock, You are correct. The 998's 3 speed is a turbo 400. If this was a problem every time the Marines hit the beach from landing craft the would be loosing trannys to salt water. That would have been corrected in short order if true. It used the same TC, pump, and forward seal as the turbo 400 in the CUCV. I did two things to help keep water out of it. I put a brass furrel on the plastic vent tube to a hose barb then ran rubber fuel line up to the firewall. I siliconed the dipstick tube grommet. It had stayed water free. And I promise I'm not lieing, I have not had to rebuild it. I never go deeper then the bottom of the dash. I'm afraid water will enter the fuel tank if I do.

 

[rustystud]

Drock, You are correct. The 998's 3 speed is a turbo 400. If this was a problem every time the Marines hit the beach from landing craft the would be loosing trannys to salt water. That would have been corrected in short order if true. It used the same TC, pump, and forward seal as the turbo 400 in the CUCV. I did two things to help keep water out of it. I put a brass furrel on the plastic vent tube to a hose barb then ran rubber fuel line up to the firewall. I siliconed the dipstick tube grommet. It had stayed water free. And I promise I'm not lieing, I have not had to rebuild it. I never go deeper then the bottom of the dash. I'm afraid water will enter the fuel tank if I do.

For one they have the metal shield housing and they silicone them down. Two, they are not meant to "stay" in the deep-water. They are only meant to go from the landing craft to the beach. I know as I was in the Marines and that is how they where driven. Also any craft that has gone into deep water is immediately sent to maintenance (as soon as hostile actions is over) and gone through. Again I was in "motor transport" and had to perform this function many times. At no time is it recommended to drive your "HMMWV's" continuously in deep water. Read the Operators manual.
As far as there being a different "front seal, torque convertor, or pump" there is not. The only thing you can buy different is a silicone front seal and that is aftermarket racing only.
Sorry guys, but I've rebuilt these TH400's for decades now and know them pretty well. There is no seal that will keep out water from the front pump on them. All you can do is buy some time before the water gets into the bellhousing.

 

[paraclete comes]

Well for all the folks out there in flood areas, be safe and God bless. I spent quite some time down there after Katrina and through Rita and it was amazing the amount of devastation. Now that we have a much better ICS/NIMS systems in place were likely to see much better cohesive response. That said, if your down there and need to be or just ended up being there do what you need to. Sometimes folks get wrapped around the axle about what and where you choose to do your business but at some point you just have to do the best you can with the situation your in.

Not ideal but how it is sometimes, blessings to you all on the gulf.

 

[The FLU farm]

Well for all the folks out there in flood areas, be safe and God bless. I spent quite some time down there after Katrina and through Rita and it was amazing the amount of devastation. Now that we have a much better ICS/NIMS systems in place were likely to see much better cohesive response. That said, if your down there and need to be or just ended up being there do what you need to. Sometimes folks get wrapped around the axle about what and where you choose to do your business but at some point you just have to do the best you can with the situation your in.
Not ideal but how it is sometimes, blessings to you all on the gulf.

Yep, there are times when my beloved machinery takes a second seat to what's going on at the moment. Katrina was one example.
The mechanical issues can usually be dealt with later.

 

[paraclete comes]

True story, I hate to wear stuff out and break stuff down but sometimes its for the right reasons. Come to think of it all the guys with Purple Hearts and just general injuries from the time in. We sacrificed our health and bodies for the greater good because it needed doing and at the time we were the best option, not perfect but best option. Semper Fi

Yep, there are times when my beloved machinery takes a second seat to what's going on at the moment. Katrina was one example.
The mechanical issues can usually be dealt with later.

 

[Bighorn]

For one they have the metal shield housing and they silicone them down. Two, they are not meant to "stay" in the deep-water. They are only meant to go from the landing craft to the beach. I know as I was in the Marines and that is how they where driven. Also any craft that has gone into deep water is immediately sent to maintenance (as soon as hostile actions is over) and gone through. Again I was in "motor transport" and had to perform this function many times. At no time is it recommended to drive your "HMMWV's" continuously in deep water. Read the Operators manual.
As far as there being a different "front seal, torque convertor, or pump" there is not. The only thing you can buy different is a silicone front seal and that is aftermarket racing only...

This has been my experience with civilian Blazers and Suburbans as well as Willys Jeeps as well.
They can keep water and mud out during a quick ford but if you get stuck for long, all the heat in the axles and engine being quenched in cold water of mud creates a vaccum in them that draw water and even mud in past the seals.
My roommate destroyed the 350 in his 72 K5 doing just that. The intake didn't go under water and was clean as a whistle ditto the valve covers and pcv valve yet when he got stuck and stalled the engine deep in the mud pit, his crankcase filled with silt.
Looked like chocolate milk when we got it out and drained the oil pan.

Back in my mud running days I figured it cost me $300 to replace the axle seals and rear brake shoes and repack bearings, inner front grease seals, sometimes front pads, every time I went through the mud pit.
Therefore, when I had the urge, I would go through it numerous times back to back till I got it out of my system since it was $300 bucks when I got home no matter what.

As for the op question about fording; On my 1984 K5 I attached an aluminum flexible dryer vent hose between the snout of the air cleaner and the firewall where I cut a 4 inch hole and stuffed the stock air flange (the plastic ring that holds the intake hose in the radiator core support).
It wasn't water tight but it kept splash out.
Drew air from just below the windshield so I would have to be hood deep before it drown.
Of course that was a gas engine.
When it drown a few times I just shut it down and pulled the plugs. A cranked till the cylinders pumped the water out.
The repercussions for a diesel might not be as rosy.

 

[Drock]

So as I was falling asleep last night I had an idea. What if you plumbed all gear box vents to one manifold, and rigged up a small air pump & regulator. So you could pressurize all the gear boxes so water couldn't get past the seals? I would assume it wouldn't take much pressure, 5-10LBS maybe? Then you could just turn on the pump before entering the water. It would take a little fiddling to figure out how much it too much pressure, but in theory it seems doable

 

[snowtrac nome]

I have had to cross deep water with civilian trucks and with good seals I have had very little get through them when crossing streams. the only advice I can give you is once you are done clean and repack bearings and check your fluids for contamination or instead of spending a little money now you will have a major repair later. this is one reason for getting the lmtv now most of my crossings no longer dip the axle and hubs in the water.

 

[The FLU farm]

So as I was falling asleep last night I had an idea. What if you plumbed all gear box vents to one manifold, and rigged up a small air pump & regulator. So you could pressurize all the gear boxes so water couldn't get past the seals? I would assume it wouldn't take much pressure, 5-10LBS maybe? Then you could just turn on the pump before entering the water. It would take a little fiddling to figure out how much it too much pressure, but in theory it seems doable

That's pretty much the setup described in post number 18. But I think that even 5 psi may be too much for regular seals.

 

[Jbulach]

This has been my experience with civilian Blazers and Suburbans as well as Willys Jeeps as well.
They can keep water and mud out during a quick ford but if you get stuck for long, all the heat in the axles and engine being quenched in cold water of mud creates a vaccum in them that draw water and even mud in past the seals.
My roommate destroyed the 350 in his 72 K5 doing just that. The intake didn't go under water and was clean as a whistle ditto the valve covers and pcv valve yet when he got stuck and stalled the engine deep in the mud pit, his crankcase filled with silt.
Looked like chocolate milk when we got it out and drained the oil pan.

Back in my mud running days I figured it cost me $300 to replace the axle seals and rear brake shoes and repack bearings, inner front grease seals, sometimes front pads, every time I went through the mud pit.
Therefore, when I had the urge, I would go through it numerous times back to back till I got it out of my system since it was $300 bucks when I got home no matter what.

As for the op question about fording; On my 1984 K5 I attached an aluminum flexible dryer vent hose between the snout of the air cleaner and the firewall where I cut a 4 inch hole and stuffed the stock air flange (the plastic ring that holds the intake hose in the radiator core support).
It wasn't water tight but it kept splash out.
Drew air from just below the windshield so I would have to be hood deep before it drown.
Of course that was a gas engine.
When it drown a few times I just shut it down and pulled the plugs. A cranked till the cylinders pumped the water out.
The repercussions for a diesel might not be as rosy.

If your vents are not blocked and you run them up high, your components should not draw a vacuum, however the pressure differential from them being submerged, will push water and possibly mud past the seals.

When you run a motor with water in the oil, the two mix, and closely resemble chocolate milk.

Why did you have to replace all those seals and brake shoes every time you went through the mud pit?

If you had to shut your motor down, it was not drown...

 

[Bighorn]

Why did you have to replace all those seals and brake shoes every time you went through the mud pit?

Three words; Hollister Hills Mud.
As for the rest; my vents were probably blocked by the many passes through the mud pit previously and improper maintenance in between.
As for the motor drowning, just using colorful language. I shut it down just as the front end submerged after taking an unfortunate line through the pit. I did not have to perform cpr or anything.. just pulled the plugs and pumped the water out to relieve the hydrolocked condition.

 

[rustystud]

So as I was falling asleep last night I had an idea. What if you plumbed all gear box vents to one manifold, and rigged up a small air pump & regulator. So you could pressurize all the gear boxes so water couldn't get past the seals? I would assume it wouldn't take much pressure, 5-10LBS maybe? Then you could just turn on the pump before entering the water. It would take a little fiddling to figure out how much it too much pressure, but in theory it seems doable

I told you I already did this. Here's the link: https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?148851-Fording-Project

 

[Drock]

I told you I already did this. Here's the link: https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?148851-Fording-Project

Well Dang! I thought I dreamed up a million dollar idea LOL! Maybe I did it was just somebody else's