Adapting 419 SEE To Drive Other Attachments Thread

[kombisutra]

Who's done it? Driving a chipper or other device with the existing hydraulic drive off the rear or front? Copy that there are several PTO take off transmissions and we got this one... well, what can we do about it? Will the hydraulic pump we have on the rear, power a killer chipper? Not concerned about the fact that 419 doesn't have a three point hitch, but actually, WHO HAS MADE their three point hitches already. Who has actually installed a normal 406/416 transmission WITH PTO take offs? Is there such thing as a hydraulically driven PTO?

 

[kombisutra]

Hydraulic Thumb for our back hoe... who's done it? One of many examples on Youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O_TRrY0d3I

 

[profo]

5.5 kw generator/200 amp welder runs off of backhoe circuit.

 

[profo]

Hydraulic Thumb for our back hoe... who's done it? One of many examples on Youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O_TRrY0d3I

Will not fold correctly back onto truck I had to make one that pins on will take pictures and send.

 

[tennmogger]

Could add hydraulic-driven PTO off the existing hydraulic pump: http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Motors/Ag-PTO-Output-Hydraulic-Motors/

I have added hydraulic winch to a 406 by adding a hydraulic motor to drive PTO winch (10k Braden off deuce).

If you fabricate a drawbar and add the hydraulic-driven PTO, you can do lots of work with drag-behind implements. Rotary mowing comes to mind.

 

[kombisutra]

Profo and Tenmogger ROCK!! I'm really interested what you guys have done, and the knowledge that these hydraulically-driven PTOs are available. This is my first machine with hydraulics and I'm learning here. Profo, I'd seen your work on your SEE, but I hadn't studied exactly what you had done, I know I'm not the only one who wants to know. How are you driving your welder? YOU and Tenmogger are the first 419 drivers I've heard of that have improvised, adapted, and overcame the challenge we all face with these otherwise highly capable machines. Now, knowing these hydraulically driven PTOs are available, I'm very inspired to investigate the limitations and possibilities. Amazing to see these Tenmogger, thank you! I don't know what our rear pumps put out yet, but one would think they should be able to drive a hydraulic PTO with power enough to drive at least a pencil sharpener. Here are stats on the bigger one here:

HIGH CAPACITY PTO DRIVE MOTOR
New, CHAR-LYNN 6000 series model 113-1112 hydraulic motor with agricultural standard six tooth splined shaft. Wheel mount with oversized tapered roller bearings on output shaft for high axial and radial load capacity. Shaft has retention groove centered 7/8" from shaft end.

SPECIFICATIONS

• Disp. 11.95 cu. in./rev.
• Motor Type Geroler Disc Valve
• Performance 43 HP @ 540 RPM with 32 GPM, 3000 PSI input
• Pressure:
  3000 PSI cont.
  4500 PSI int.
• Torque:
  5100 in-lbs. cont.
  7620 in-lbs. int.
• Speed:
  775 RPM cont.
  866 RPM int.
• Flow:
  40 GPM cont.
  45 GPM int.
• Rotation Reversible
• Shaft 1-3/8" dia. 6T spline, 3-1/2" long
• Rqd. Filtration 25 Micron
• Ports SAE 16
• Case Drain SAE 4
• Mount 4 bolt wheel mount, 7-1/4" B.C.
• Front Extension 3.88" w/5" dia. pilot
• Body length 7-1/4" back from mtg flange face
• Overall Size 11" x 6-1/2" x 6-1/2"
• Shpg.64 lbs.

 

[tennmogger]

Check your manual for output specs on your hydraulic system. You may find it is not 32 gpm. With hydraulics that's not a show stopper because lower flow can still do the job. You should verify the hydraulic output of the SEE/419 and match the motor to that output. You probably won't get 43 HP out of it. The 3000 psi is the max for the motor, and there again, the 419 may not have such a high rating.

In case that does not add up, consider that the PTO motor is expected to turn at 540 rpm. A larger displacement motor will require more volume of juice to accomplish that speed. A smaller displacement motor can accomplish the same output speed of 540 but will require less volume (this volume should match the 419 pump output) but provides less horsepower.

BTW, my experience is not with a 419 but with a 406, somewhat different animals. I would hate to confuse the issue but think most of the functionality of the 406's is similar to the 419, with the 419 being the more robust of the two!

Here's a possible idea for a three point hitch. On the German agricultural Unimogs, the two heavy/lower arms of the 3 point hitch come off the rear axle, not off the frame of the Unimog. The SEE might still have the bosses on the axle to mount the 3 point arms (legacy from original use of the axles). 3-point stuff is commonly available in Europe and several US importers can get it for you.

If not, there are tow bars which I have seen here on SS that use chain clamps to attach to the axle tubes. A pair of those axle clamps might be adaptable to 3-point arm mount brackets (with a little SS engineering). Then you would have to mount a lift cylinder off the back of the 419 frame, and that seems straightforward. Do some searching on Unimog 3 point and you'll find lots of ideas.

This will get you started: http://www.benzworld.org/forums/unimog/2487873-unimog-3-point-hitch.html

Benzworld/Unimog is a wonderful site for Unimog enthusiasts. Once on the forum, use the 'forum search' feature and "3-point", or other terms. That'll keep you busy for a week.

Bob

 

[profo]

Could add hydraulic-driven PTO off the existing hydraulic pump: http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Motors/Ag-PTO-Output-Hydraulic-Motors/

I have added hydraulic winch to a 406 by adding a hydraulic motor to drive PTO winch (10k Braden off deuce).

If you fabricate a draw bar and add the hydraulic-driven PTO, you can do lots of work with drag-behind implements. Rotary mowing comes to mind.

Working on that now got the tractor splined PTO from Surplus center 9-7368-160/ 9.59 CU in. all you have to do is plug it into the backhoe quick connects and you have 30-40 hp of hydraulic power at 540 rpm, Best I seen on my SEE is about 27 gpm @ 2000 psi, so you dont want any bigger motor because you will not have rpm to drive the mower which is rated at inputs of 540, implements go straight onto splines and can run a 6-8'woods mower or 6' bush hog shreader, also making a hydraulic pin system that is tied into the hydraulic tool quick connects so you don't have to bang out the holding pins for the backhoe making it easier to remove. The three point will incorporate, a mount that goes onto existing top link Hydralic cylinder and bottom clamps and will have two vertical channels open side facing in with four roller bearings( kinda exactly like a forklift looks) in which a Cat 1 quick hitch will be fastened to. so you can tilt the three using valve on side of truck ( this is what called the top link on a tractor which is usually a thread rod turnbuckle) and up and down wil be activated by a aux circuit that I am added to existing valve body at the back of the cab, which will be electronic hydraulic vale so all you have inside of cab is a switch.

As for the welder you have to tap into the rear PTO hydraulics I added a valve body right before the backhoe quick connects that is switched when sitting in the backhoe seat or has a pto cable that goes to the hydralic tools panel also, if you look real good in picture your can see the t handle by work light switch, in which diverts the hydraulics from backhoe to the welder you need at least 17 gpm @ 2000 psi to run welder, generator, wanted to use front hydraulics for this but it only outputs about 9 gpm. The welder is made by a company called GETEC, expensive but works great, the only hard part was relocating the hydraulic cooling fan assembly to middle behind cab in front of backhoe seat, cause I wanted to put spare tire on roof/guard and put oxygen/actelene bottles for torch behind cab but had to clear the air conditioner condensers and fans.

Marty

 

[kombisutra]

Marty, I'm pretty sure YOU are the current winner of The Best Adapted 419 to date. Really outstanding. Will enjoy watching your truck progress. The welder/generator is an awesome addition. Had I thought like you, I might have passed on my Miller 325 and saved a bundle in the process. Really looking forward to seeing more of your pictures. Also, you say you experimented with a hydraulic or mechanical thumb for the back hoe? This is hugely interesting too. Where is there a cache of your fabrication images? Would love to study what you've done. Outstanding!

 

[kombisutra]

Tenmogger, yes, thank you for the link over to benzworld.org. I had been a member but hadn't been there in a couple years... that "Demystifying The 419" thread is good, love the topic raised about adapting Bobcat Plate to run all Bobcat attachments! Will be making my rounds again, good stuff!

 

[natrgatr]

Having seen many comments on the undersized from hydraulic pump, has anyone looked into upsizing the belt driven front hydraulic pump?

 

[The FLU farm]

There's much more on the to-do list and so far all I've accomplished is to put a quick attach on the loader and run the hoses for a hydraulic snow blower (meant for a low-flow Bobcat).
It's the simplest possible setup in that either the backhoe or the hoses to the front are pressurized depending on which pair is connected to the factory quick disconnects.
It does run the snow blower, but I have no idea if it'll actually work as we haven't had enough snow yet.

 

[The FLU farm]

How about a hydraulic setup that supposedly drives the vehicle?
Anybody have a source for information on this lump?