Advice on purchasing either a M113 or an M114

[19kilo]

This is my first post on here, but the thread is on a topic that I've been debating with. I have the opportunity to purchase Either a 1961 M113(Gas Engine) that was recently rebuilt and looks sharp and comes with many extras. Its the XM734 version with the skirts for swimming.
Or..
An M114 A1 E1 with a legal and working M139 20MM. Also fully restored and lots of extras including extra set of tracks. The seller for this states that the apc is titled and legal.
And while I drove Abrams in the early 90's, I haven't owned any MV until now. I'll probably get a duece around the same time. Maybe use it and a trailer to haul which ever one of these fun APC's I buy. Its either that, or import a OT90 from UK.
My questions are what are the maintenance like for the M113 and M114. I've researched them both and I know that the M114 was underpowered and had a tendency to get stuck in mud and not go over logs very well. Normally I'd think more towards the M113, but that legal M139 20MM sounds nice. If I had the cash I'd buy em both, but I can only afford one. What are your opinions and thoughts on pro's and cons for these two machines.

I enjoyed reading previous posts and liked the pics posted on the M113 and M114 thread.

Also as a side note, what would be the difficulties in Upgrading the M113 to an A1 or A2 version. I read on a website that approx cost to upgrade the M113's to the A1 or A2 version ran around 160K, but that was awhile ago, and government spending. Or I could just keep it original since they are rare.
Ok, I'll shut up now and see what input/advice I get.

Pics are M113 http://www.armyjeeps.net/XM734M113/1961_m113.htm

M114 http://www.armyjeeps.net/M114/m114a1e1__apc.htm

 

[EZFEED]

I'd get the OT-90, it will be allot cheaper than the M113 or 114 and has all of the features that the U.S. vehicle has but is allot more user friendly, easier to work on, and in my opinion allot tougher. I found some BMP-1's (same thing) in Poland that are in primo almost new condition for $5-8,000 depending on equipment and my next tax return check will be used on it and shipping.
I dont know about any in the UK for sale but watch their prices and shop around cause you are paying their own fees plus profit that they tag on for getting it.
U.S. armor's cool but who can afford it nowadays

 

[EZFEED]

Oh...also.....is the 20mm fully fuctional as in automatic or has it been convereted to semi or single shot?

Either way you have some paperwork, a tax, and background checks to do with BATF for that along with the vehicle. In either form it is still a DD and machinegun and if it's transferable (pre-86) than you will pay a transfer tax and must follow those regulations that apply. If its post then you must be an 07FFL and it will be registered as a sample.

 

[wgtactical]

My understanding is the M139 is a dummy. And yes, American armor is expensive as compared to foreign.

 

[kcimb]

Re: RE: Advice on purchasing either a M113 or an M114

I'd get the OT-90, it will be allot cheaper than the M113 or 114 and has all of the features that the U.S. vehicle has but is allot more user friendly, easier to work on, and in my opinion allot tougher. I found some BMP-1's (same thing) in Poland that are in primo almost new condition for $5-8,000 depending on equipment and my next tax return check will be used on it and shipping.
I dont know about any in the UK for sale but watch their prices and shop around cause you are paying their own fees plus profit that they tag on for getting it.
U.S. armor's cool but who can afford it nowadays

EZ,

I'm interested if you are going to import one. I'm going over 'there' in december, and I'll be back in August..if you do decide to get one, or two..let me know. My interest is definitely piqued.

That and an SBR

 

[SETOYOTA]

RE: Re: RE: Advice on purchasing either a M113 or an M114

The M113 is the more sought after piece.

 

[Tankjeepman]

M113 or M114

Are you kidding? Buy American! The gas version of the M113 is faster than the diesel version. They are a blast to drive and will go almost anywhere. One of the reasons the M114 was dropped is the front hull design causes it to get stuck. If you got the $ I would go with the M113.

 

[TacticalTruck]

RE: M113 or M114

The foreign stuff doesn't seem to appreciate as much as US armor. I've driven that XM734. It's a nice piece. I read that those variants were sent to Vietman (i have a pic of one in country) for evaluation but since no one wanted to ride down inside the apcs, let alone fight from them, the gun port ida was axed. They wre sold to Israel which is where this one came from. Buy it! It's a better deal than the M114.
Jeff

 

[19kilo]

RE: M113 or M114

I agree that the foreign stuff doesn't appreciate as much, plus our government lets us import foriegn armor/apc's but hard to get any of our stuff.
EZ..do you have a site where you saw those Poland BMP-1's? I just want to keep all my options open. Thanks so far for everyone's thoughts!

 

[ARMYMAN30YearsPlus]

RE: M113 or M114

Wow:
Getting an M113 would be one vehicle my wife might let me get since as an Army Nurse in command of a Charlie Med Company in the 1/28 FSB she got licenced on them. I agree an M113 would be a blast to own and drive and what mouth would not drop at any rally to see you pull in with your duece pulling the M113 on the trailer?

You might even look for an M813 to tow it with that would be the ultimate toy set. Nothing you can buy will match the performance of your M1A1 experience though that tank is the worlds finest.

 

[Elwenil]

RE: M113 or M114

Considering the M35 TM lists the maximum towed load at 6k lbs and the M113 weighs in at 25k lbs combat weight, I'd definitely look at a 5 ton tractor as a tow vehicle. The M114A1 is a little lighter at 15k lbs combat weight.

 

[SETOYOTA]

RE: M113 or M114

The M35 is not suitable to tow any armor. Underpowered and unsafe. I have first hand experience. If you are buying armor spend a little extra for a proper Tow vehicle. An M818 will do but expect long slow trips. If you are not in a tacticle situation a medium duty or heavy duty commercial truck is best. Safer, more comfortable, and easier to drive. I use a F-750 to move my armor around.

The M113 will require a tandem tractor. The M114 not so much. If $$$ is not a factor the M113 is by far the best choice. Have you ever looked at a M114? Not a very impressive vehicle. very small

Chuck H

 

[ARMYMAN30YearsPlus]

RE: M113 or M114

I towed 15,000 pounds with my duece the M127 trailer and my dolly it towed very well although it did slow down on hills. The M113 is an awesome vehicle and you should see an M113A3 they really haul apples.

 

[Uglyranger]

Pictures of a "fixer upper" M114 located in Columbus, Georgia.

 

[Dodgeman1941]

I've trailered a 10-12,000 lb firetruck behind my duece and it went very well. Pulled good, stopped good. You just have to understand , like every other heavy vehicle, your 0-60 and 60-0 times are longer then they would be empty. Using that expierence, a 114 would be do able {I'm thinking about doing it myself} and a 113 would be beyond the feasable limits of a M35. Considering that most of the highway speed limits for trucks is 60 anyway, you won't be losing much overall time either.

The M114 is very underpowered, even with a 350 in ours, it's a boat anchor when you are going through anything with resistance {mud, snow, up a hill}. Would I trade it for a 113, no. It is just the right size to be manageable. You can take it to parades, ect. with out to much trouble in a crowded staging area {with a spotter in th observer position of course}. My kids and wife like driving it. You can basicly store it anywhere you can park a car and is it non-semi truck transportable.

 

[HellonwheelsV-100]

Ok, here is my advice-

I own an M114. I love it.

Having said that, given the two choices you listed, I would buy the M113.
I know the owner of that vehicle and it is an excellent deal. Not sure what ArmyJeeps has it listed for currently.

The M114A1E1 listed on the site has a dummy 20mm. It is "legal", because those mounts were supposed to be demilled, which is why they are so rare. Somehow he was able to get a complete one. The downside to that one is that (in my opinion) it is CRAZY EXPENSIVE for an M114.

Keep in mind that the M113s, although being the most produced APC of all time, have almost no parts availability. I guess we send most of our spares overseas to other countries. That would be the only hard part with that vehicle in my opinion.

Plus, I would think that an M113 would have some income potential in the film industry (if you are into that), since there are not too many in private hands.

Just my though!

 

[Artillerydan]

The M113 is the better deal. M114 are a little eaisier to move from place to place but the M113 you are looking at is more collectable than the M114 (but the 20mm setup if complete is also fairly rare). The short answer is there are fewer M113s in private hands than M114s. also the parts availability for the M113 will be higher.

 

[kcimb]

Pictures of a "fixer upper" M114 located in Columbus, Georgia.

How much were they asking?

 

[SETOYOTA]

a deuce pulling 15k at 40mph down the interstate is not safe. God forbid you hit a hill.

 

[wgtactical]

Pictures of a "fixer upper" M114 located in Columbus, Georgia.

Compared to the first one that I finished, this one is a cream puff