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AH-64 Apache Crash

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flighht2k5

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:roll: Good pilots don't do something so blatantly stupid. You must be driven by similar sensibilities. :cookoo:

I'm thankful no one on the ground was hurt, regarding the pilot, not so much.
You don't know me so don't make an assumption. How sad you wish harm on an American pilot.
 

emmado22

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I asked a long time personal friend of mine who is an active duty Apache Pilot about the video. Here is his response...




What you saw there is NOT hot dogging by any stretch of the imagination. It's a standard combat approach, but those on the controls were more than likely inexperienced at flying in high density altitude (thinner air) conditions and got into a situation from which they couldn't recover. The RTT turn more than likely was SOP in order to land in that LZ due to prevailing winds, terrain, etc. That is a maneuver we do on a daily basis and is by no means dangerous (except to those we're targeting).

The initial impact snapped the tailboom and damaged the tail rotor driveshaft. The subsequent massive addition of power to pull out snapped the driveshaft once they were airborne again, resulting in the spin you see at the end.

He came in too fast and didn't have the power available to decelerate because of the environmental conditions. As a result he couldn't pull in enough power to decelerate at the bottom of the approach. Had he done that, he'd have slowed down the main rotor and they'd have dropped straight down and it would have been even worse. Helicopters don't respond like airplanes. You don't just pull back on the throttle to slow down. You need to ADD power to slow down, but change the helicopter's pitch attitude simultaneously. That changes your lift and thrust vectors and allows the helicopter to decelerate. If you can't add power, you can't stop yourself. I'd have to know the altitude and temperature and check the performance charts in the -10, but I'd bet they didn't even have 90% torque available. That makes for a seriously bad day when you need every last ounce of power to pull out of a descent like that.

I did also want to comment that they were landing in snow. Sand/dust and snow are treated the same when you're making an approach under those conditions. You get the helicopter down as fast as you can so you don't brown/white out and lose all visual reference. We lost several Apaches in OIF I due to brownout conditions. THAT is scary as ****. While I never flew in combat in my 6 years in the cockpit, I've landed in snow in western PA and the pucker factor was high. I've landed in dust in Arizona and it was a bit higher (I was less experienced at the time). Doing it under combat conditions in a high DA environment when you're power limited? Just a recipe for disaster.
 

mkcoen

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Video just showed up on Fox News web site. They didn't add any additional info but officials "didn't know what caused the crash but they're investigating." Probably means they're trying to figure out how to handle the Statement of Charges from the guys paychecks.
 

Terracoma

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The soldier standing between the dark-colored crate and the UTV at the beginning of the video, who puts both of his hands up into the air?

Luckiest guy I ever seen.
 
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toptiger

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Look, the guys were showing off and doing a buzz job, like many before them and like the many that will follow. That is what we do when the CO is not around.
The first part of the explanation from a [supposedly] former Apache pilot s total BS "What you saw there is NOT hot dogging by any stretch of the imagination. It's a standard combat approach,....The RTT turn more than likely was SOP in order to land in that LZ due to prevailing winds, terrain, etc. That is a maneuver we do on a daily basis and is by no means dangerous (except to those we're targeting)."

There is no such thing as a 'standard combat approach' That's totally absurd. And as far as that being a SOP approach to an LZ that too is absurd. And the idea that one would over fly the target then climb to a low airspeed over the target's position, then do a zero air speed pedal turn is just completely absurd, too. Crop dusters do this type of cyclic climb and pedal turn, but no gunship tactics ever taught would recommend that.

The pilot was just showing off. I did it, every attack pilot I know did it at some point or another, so to try and explain it in some other way than that is just stupid. Get real.
 

toptiger

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Look, the guys were showing off and doing a buzz job, like many before them and like the many that will follow. That is what we do when the CO is not around.
The first part of the explanation from a [supposedly] former Apache pilot is total BS "What you saw there is NOT hot dogging by any stretch of the imagination. It's a standard combat approach,....The RTT turn more than likely was SOP in order to land in that LZ due to prevailing winds, terrain, etc. That is a maneuver we do on a daily basis and is by no means dangerous (except to those we're targeting)."

There is no such thing as a 'standard combat approach' That's totally absurd. The idea that one would over fly the target then climb to a low airspeed over the target's position, then do a zero air speed pedal turn is just completely absurd, too. And as far as that being a SOP approach to an LZ that too is absurd. Crop dusters do this type of cyclic climb and pedal turn, but no gunship tactics ever taught would recommend that.

The pilot was just showing off. Its what we do between kills. I did it, every attack pilot I know did it at some point or another, so to try and explain it in some other way than that is just stupid. Get real.
 
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emmado22

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No supposedly about it. He is an active duty Apache pilot. So I guess you can be a "supposed" chopper pilot too.
 
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patracy

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I asked a chinook pilot his take on it. Pilot error combined with "hey watch this".

The "hey watch this" in a $35M machine in a non-combat situation kinda rubs me wrong. Just saying.
 

toptiger

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I used the word supposedly because I think you must have misquoted him. No gunship pilot who saw the video would ever say what you said he did about 'combat approach' and 'SOP' landing.
Makes zero sense.
Ask him again. The pilot in that crash was hot dogging, there is no other excuse possible.
Like the next guys said, it was a 'Hey, watch this' moment and 'Red X the pilot' {but I am sure the Army already has}.
The GIF was probably grounded too.
 

toptiger

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I used the word supposedly because I think you must have misquoted him. No gunship pilot who saw the video would ever say what you said he did about 'combat approach' and 'SOP' landing.
Makes zero sense.
Ask him again. The pilot in that crash was hot dogging, there is no other excuse possible.
Like the next guys said, it was a 'Hey, watch this' moment and 'Red X the pilot' {but I am sure the Army already has}.
The GIF was probably grounded too.
 

73m819

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You know that crash vid shows a helo crash, thats it, NOBODY here can or could read the mind of the pilot, all this back and forth (4 pages) of what happened does not ACCOMPLISH anything, instead just hope and pray that the crew walked away
 
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B3.3T

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Thin air of high altitudes is a Low Density condition, not high. The Blackhawk pilot who sent me the video was recently station near where this occurred. He thinks the pilot will be charged, but just the pilot.
 
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