Alternative hydraulic hand pump.

[Ronmar]

The AOP is OK, but it and the manifold have their fair share of issues. I find it hard to believe your hand pump is bad…

I am removing that mid structure so dropping to a hand only was a good decision for me, and also keeps inline with my KISS policy. i have used that type hand pump on dump trailers and have never had an issue…. They just work…

 

[mccullek]

The control valve cores are segmented by orings. A bad seal could let pressure pass right from inlet to outlet and have trouble building enough pressure to do the work…

capping the outlet on the hand pump will prove if the hand pump is indeed bad. You should not be able to pump into a sealed/blocked port.

The ports on all the hardware are SAE4, they use SAE4-JIC4 adapters to hook to the JIC hose ends. You could get adapters to make up a plug to seal that outlet port. Using a hose from the locked suspension cylinders is just a way to get a sealed/blocked port onto that hand pump with what is on the truck/available.

Hey Ronmar, do you know if these O-rings need to be any special type/size, or will a similar sized O-ring from an O-ring kit work?

 

[Ronmar]

Hey Ronmar, do you know if these O-rings need to be any special type/size, or will a similar sized O-ring from an O-ring kit work?

I jink some have done just that, using an oring kit…

 

[mccullek]

I jink some have done just that, using an oring kit…

Great, thanks!

 

[ramdough]

@Ronmar

I copied part of your design. I have enroute everything but the selector valve.

I only plan to have the cab on hydraulics. The tire is moving.

Thanks for sharing your designs and making videos!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ronmar]

@Ronmar

I copied part of your design. I have enroute everything but the selector valve.

I only plan to have the cab on hydraulics. The tire is moving.

Thanks for sharing your designs and making videos!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yea that's all i am using(pump and flow control valve), my spare is relocating also…

 

[GENX]

I think the empty cab is around 1600#, so another 600 is +37%? Where that weight is located will make a large difference in lift requirements

If you are keeping tire crane: The tire lift is about a 50% increase in pressure(2100psi) over the cab lift but still well under the pump capacity and is doable with the stock lever but since the needed pressures are below the pump capacity you can tailor the lever length to provide a desired effort level, so I don't think added cab weight within reason is an issue.

As for cab air control, I am currently using a pipe plug. Air bags are toast and I am rounding up parts to fab my own design.

Does it really need a valve? We are not air shipping these where we would want to lock down the cab. If i need it deflated for maintenance I can drain the wet tank and loosen a fitting.

We usually want it on and if it fails it is easy enough to access and either cap or put in a simple inline isolation valve at the supply on the wet tank…

I was thinking about relocating the tire to the top and building a rack for overhead stuff. Think this would add about 800#ish.... I wonder would this strain anything?

 

[Guruman]

I was thinking about relocating the tire to the top and building a rack for overhead stuff. Think this would add about 800#ish.... I wonder would this strain anything?

I thought about doing that as well. Im interested in seeing how you plan to get the tire on and off the top of the cab.

I have a small Harbor Freight truck bed crane that I modified to fit into one of the parachute attachment points in the bed. I'm thinking of rigging a point for it to mount on top the cab for raising and lowering the tire if needed.

 

[GENX]

Modify something like what you did to mount to the roof rack and lower. I'd like to make it removable and storable https://www.northerntool.com/shop/t...moyCexUnpreStihqbaxoCwpMQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[Guruman]

Modify something like what you did to mount to the roof rack and lower. I'd like to make it removable and storable https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200672542_200672542?cm_mmc=Google-LIA&utm_source=Google_LIA&utm_medium=Material Handling > Hoists & Lifts + Cranes > Truck Cranes&utm_campaign=Ultra-Tow&utm_content=52514&gclid=CjwKCAjwwo-WBhAMEiwAV4dyba9SAqQvcduJ7PyzJNASh_GbvROYLYvXnsJmoyCexUnpreStihqbaxoCwpMQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

That unit is exactly what I bought. Then I swapped one of the inexpensive electric winches in for that junk hand crank, and replaced the steel cable with synthetic. I used a 2 inch hitch extension to stick down in the parachute mounting hole and pin it with the chute pin, then drilled a hole in the crane base to match up with the other pin hole in the hitch extension.

Just pin the extension in the pocket, and slide the crane base over and pin it, and you're ready to pick up 1000 pounds of whatever you can get a line on. Bonus is that it's movable to any corner of the bed.

 

[Ronmar]

I was thinking about relocating the tire to the top and building a rack for overhead stuff. Think this would add about 800#ish.... I wonder would this strain anything?

Things start to get complex when you start to move weight up… That is a large bulky tire, about 350#, that you now must lift, move horizontally far enough to clear the cab then lower now at least 10’. lot of added stresses with overhung loads, and the design is critical. This is not even considering the structure required to distribute that weight to the cab structure. Another thing to consider is these cabs are pretty fragile as it is, do you really want another 400-800# decelerating/delivering energy to the cab above and behind your head if you should run into something?

If I were going to do it from the cab roof, I might consider some form of A frame. Triangles are our friends, and multiple load paths are even friendlier to design for. If you did the roof structure right, you might could fit one tire on each side and put up the A frame with hydraulic positioner on whichever side you were swapping a tire from, or was safest to work from.

If it wasn’t so tall, I might actually consider putting it up on the front bumper(lots of good solid structure, simple lift), but I think it might block too much view to maintain a good entrance angle. I am going to put mine at the rear, just high enough for the tire to clear the rear exit angle. Been brainstorming on this for a while and if I could get it lower I would as it is though, there is no horizontal movement required, and it will be a simple straight raise and lower to it’s rack with a winch. I can also tie large steel from it’s mount location down to the habitat frame…

If I am changing a tire on demand, somewhere other than my yard, on perhaps a dark and stormy night, the last thing I want to have to do is erect a gantry for crane ops…

My .02

 

[Guruman]

Things start to get complex when you start to move weight up… That is a large bulky tire, about 350#, that you now must lift, move horizontally far enough to clear the cab then lower now at least 10’. lot of added stresses with overhung loads, and the design is critical. This is not even considering the structure required to distribute that weight to the cab structure. Another thing to consider is these cabs are pretty fragile as it is, do you really want another 400-800# decelerating/delivering energy to the cab above and behind your head if you should run into something?

If I were going to do it from the cab roof, I might consider some form of A frame. Triangles are our friends, and multiple load paths are even friendlier to design for. If you did the roof structure right, you might could fit on on each side and put up the A frame on whichever side you were swapping a tire from…

If it wasn’t so tall, I might actually consider putting it up on the front bumper(lots of good solid structure, simple lift), but I think it might block too much view to maintain a good entrance angle. I am going to put mine at the rear, just high enough for the tire to clear the rear exit angle. Been brainstorming on this for a while and if I could get it lower I would as it is though, there is no horizontal movement required, and it will be a simple straight raise and lower to it’s rack with a winch. I can also tie large steel from it’s mount location down to the habitat frame…

If I am changing a tire on demand, somewhere other than my yard, on perhaps a dark and stormy night, the last thing I want to have to do is erect a gantry for crane ops…

My .02

Yes. But.. The cab is designed to carry a gun ring, gun, ammo, and a gunner. Also, I think I'd work a system where the tire is mounted and dismounted with the cab tilted forward. Easier to manage the overhang, distance to the ground etc...

Maybe using some big cargo drawer slides, that slide the spare tire forward when tilting and sets it gently on the ground. A couple of pins could hold the slide in place when you want it to stay put.

 

[Ronmar]

I don’t think the ring, gun and ammo weigh as much as a tire… and even with that weight, they add a cab support strut to the windshield center.

You are also not trying to remove the ring, gun and ammo(gunner doesn’t count) alongside the road on a dark and stormy night with a crane you need to assemble…

It of course can be done, and I have seen people who have done it, but it requires a frame to distribute the weight(which adds weight), well beyond that of a gun mount, and the op to retrieve and replace the tire is way more involved.

 

[GENX]

My plan was to build an interior skeleton/frame inside the cabin wall to wall and fit out for some more vertical storage of tools etc in padded pelican cases. Perhaps interior fridge to supplement the cabin fridge. This frame would connect to the floor and the frame the cab sits on. This interior exoskeleton would connect to and undergird the upper rack/exoskeleton. Not that I think this is going to completely do the job of protecting like a roll cage but it's better than what is there now. I intend to build a rack on the back for a motorcycle carrier and I agree, I don't want anything on front except a winch.

Now having said this, I am not opposed to having a tire on the motocarrier in the back. I want to build a single wheel overlanding trailer for the motorcycle and have the upper pelican case fit into the motorcycle trailer. So the aluminum mototrailer, pelican case and perhaps spare up top... I like the idea of two spares but I may install one or both on the back.. Considering impact and what's above is no joke but all the stress is going to be on the single cabin yoke locking mechanism.

 

[coachgeo]

My plan was to build an interior skeleton/frame inside the cabin wall to wall and fit out for some more vertical storage of tools etc in padded pelican cases. Perhaps interior fridge to supplement the cabin fridge. This frame would connect to the floor and the frame the cab sits on. This interior exoskeleton would connect to and undergird the upper rack/exoskeleton. Not that I think this is going to completely do the job of protecting like a roll cage but it's better than what is there now. ....

not better if the design allows it to bend down and poke/stab you or pin you in. Design needs wisdom/knowledge

 

[Third From Texas]

I'd leave the spare at home long before I'd add that much weight over the cab.

I do intend to have some stowage above the cab, but nothing my crippled old ass can't carry up a ladder with one hand. I don't even like the builds where people put those giant boxes full of crap up top that takes three people and a crane to deal with. Nope.....

These trucks are nose and top heavy as is and adding stuff above the cab is not a direction I care to go. Center of gravity is already wack once you add a habitat on the back (unless you plan on a hi-lo build). One wrong move on the trail and shit can go sideways fast (and that's w/o even adding thousands of pounds of capsizing leverage over the cab). Great stuff for Walmart campers. Not overland trucks, IMO.

Recovedry gets expensive af, too (not including all the fines from spilling sewage and contaminates all over a national park).

ymmv

 

[GENX]

All good points, definitely things to consider. I know that the lower the center of gravity the better. I wonder if something could be devised under the frame? I have a pretty good void above the rearend diff axle. Have to measure and see.

 

[GENX]

Question on the hydraulics:
I use my switches and air pump for cab lift and the cab falters about 1/3-1/2 way up. I take over with the hand pump and it seems to falter after a bit too, sometimes will not elevate the cab all the way with hand pump. So tonight I removed the spare tire so I can work on tracing lines out and doing a delete/rebuilding with good known pump.
I am going to go with the pump Ronmar has reconned in this thread. Thank you for the research sir!
But my question is more on the hydraulics, do you think that the reservoir could just be low? I don't see any leaks. but could find where the reservoir is before it got dark.
I find it odd that the hand crank doesn't work every time? I was going to try to search for the TM to troubleshoot and trace these circuits out. If anyone has any info it's appreciated.

 

[Ronmar]

All good points, definitely things to consider. I know that the lower the center of gravity the better. I wonder if something could be devised under the frame? I have a pretty good void above the rearend diff axle. Have to measure and see.

The tire is just so dam bulky The space between the leaf springs is only 40”, I think you will have a problem fitting the spare up over the driveshaft anyway. I was looking at an idea to put it on an angle up under the rear and still keep it inside the exit angle, but that was also problematic. At some point the 47” tire interferes with the frame(only 29” ID). Have not given up on the idea yet as that is really where I would want all that weight in a perfect world…

 

[Ronmar]

Question on the hydraulics:
I use my switches and air pump for cab lift and the cab falters about 1/3-1/2 way up. I take over with the hand pump and it seems to falter after a bit too, sometimes will not elevate the cab all the way with hand pump. So tonight I removed the spare tire so I can work on tracing lines out and doing a delete/rebuilding with good known pump.
I am going to go with the pump Ronmar has reconned in this thread. Thank you for the research sir!
But my question is more on the hydraulics, do you think that the reservoir could just be low? I don't see any leaks. but could find where the reservoir is before it got dark.
I find it odd that the hand crank doesn't work every time? I was going to try to search for the TM to troubleshoot and trace these circuits out. If anyone has any info it's appreciated.

That sounds like low fluid. The hardest part of the lift is the first 1/3, so every seal and fitting is at it’s highest stress before that point. Above about 1/3 it gets significantly easier. TheAOP is up between the air filter and the spare. Its filler plug/dipstick is toward the front. The hand pump has a filler plug at the front left corner when facing the pump. There are a couple of steering check valves that should force returning fluid to the hand pump first, but they rely on pressure, so a trapped air pocket in the hand pump would keep it from being full also.

Because of this plumbing, make sure you put the plug back in the hand pump after you fill it