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Alternator bracket bolts

CanadianAR

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Just a thought, is there a modern bolt that could replace the bolts that commonly break? Like a stronger grade 12 or something? Or is it that they loosen without someone’s knowledge prior to breaking?
Just looking to see if there’s a preventative measure.
 

87cr250r

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If you have room, put a spacer under the head of the bolt and use a longer bolt. This will solve most breakage problems. Longer grip lengths make for tougher connections.

If you want a stronger bolt, metric socket head cap screws are available in class 12.9.

If you want to use high strength bolts, the clamped surfaces must be parallel. If the cast surfaces aren't spot faced, they may have some draft from casting. Spherical seated washers can help with breakage in this case.
 

CanadianAR

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We are talking the bolts going into the cylinder head right? I assume you need an Imp bolt for the head. Mine is fine at the moment but worth upfitting if possible,
 

Mogman

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They are metric, IIRC they are specked at 10.9 you could use 12.9, be careful using longer bolts as you can break out the back side of the casting causing all kinds of hell.
 

CanadianAR

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I understand what you mean. I guess the heads are based on GM so metric would be right, especially as it’s a 2006 GEP

Does anyone know the exact bolt size and length? I’ll see if I have space but at a bare minimum I’d go to 12.9.
 

Mogman

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I understand what you mean. I guess the heads are based on GM so metric would be right, especially as it’s a 2006 GEP

Does anyone know the exact bolt size and length? I’ll see if I have space but at a bare minimum I’d go to 12.9.
I think I listed the TM pages on that just a day or so ago..
 

Coug

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My alternator bracket bolts broke because it was the pre 196900 style rear support that went to an exhaust stud, and the flange it also held down wasn't flat, so it pulled the stud sideways and caused it to break. Without that rear support there is a lot more stress on the bracket bolts.

The post 196900 serial number trucks have a rear bracket that goes down to the block with nothing else on it, so much stronger design.

Mostly when I hear about the alternator bracket bolts, it's the early style rear support style, and that stud I mentioned broke.

If you have the newer style then I would just verify everything is properly torqued, and not worry about it.

Thread about it
 

Mogman

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I understand what you mean. I guess the heads are based on GM so metric would be right, especially as it’s a 2006 GEP

Does anyone know the exact bolt size and length? I’ll see if I have space but at a bare minimum I’d go to 12.9.
I think this is what you are looking for, I was not paying attention if you listed the model, 2006 GEP could mean allot of things.
But don't take my word on it, double check in the TM.
 

Attachments

Coug

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I’m positive I have the old style. Truck was redone. But I don’t think that was updated.

Can the newer style bracket be installed?
The thread I linked a few posts back was when I updated mine to the new style
 

MarkM

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You really don't want to use a spacer and a longer stud as it will put more load on the stud due to leverage on the stud at the base (cantilevered).

Mine has not broken but the nut loosening a tiny bit and causing a rattle. Not a great design. My alt is a 100 amp so not as heavy as the larger alternators. The 12.9 metric stud if you can find it is the strongest for this load. The softer studs will become work hardened over time due the weight of the alternator and the off-axis (side load) bracket load.

A sae grade eight bolt is equivalent to a 10.9 metric bolt. The 8.8 metric bolt is only equivalent to the sae grade 5 which is Not suitable for an exhaust stud. The heat cycles along with the alternator weight load to a woefully small diameter exhaust stud is a recipe for failure in time. Exhaust studs can fail (Read below) on their own now we add an off-axis weight load and this exacerbates the situation.

Mark

Found this online.

Q: What causes an exhaust manifold stud/bolt to break?

A: The exhaust manifolds are formed from the factory using fine grain cast iron, and like most metals, it expands and contracts during duty cycles of heating and cooling. This expansion happens naturally, and at first, the manifold and mounting studs are in a state of “elastic deformation.” Elastic deformation is basically expansion and contraction over a period of time retaining the original size and shape. Each duty cycle will provide tension stress on the studs or bolts that hold the manifold in place. The mounting hardware exhibits flexibility over time. However, as the manifold continues to expand and contract more dimensionally, each consecutive time creates larger and larger tension forces that move beyond the elastic state of deformation and become what is referred to as “plastic deformation.” Basically the manifold stretches beyond return and fractures the mounting stud, leaving the manifold permanently deformed and dimensionally changed. This expansion and stretching of the manifold bolts over numerous duty cycles eventually causes too much tension on the bolt(s), stretching them beyond capacity and causing them to fail.
 

MarkM

CODE BROWN...It's all going to sh~t !
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This configuration requires a lock washer of some sort as once the stud nut is torqued the heat cycles over time can loosen the nut. Special locks can be used but in my setup there were still stud threads after the nut was in place so I just used a jam nut to lock everything together without applying more torque to the nut on the manifold stud. My rattle has not come back Thank God.

Mark
 

MarkM

CODE BROWN...It's all going to sh~t !
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If you move the bracket connection further out it is going to impart more leverage force on the stud.

Mark
 

Retiredwarhorses

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"You really don't want to use a spacer and a longer stud as it will put more load on the stud due to leverage on the stud at the base (cantilevered)."

This is wrong. Increasing grip lengths increases the resilience of the connection. Adding spacers to problem joints will reduce loosening and breakage.

https://www.boltscience.com/pages/GripLengthRatio.htm
the problem is it’s a high vibration and high stress component, add to that the grade 8 bolt is harder than the cast iron block, the biggest issue is over torquing the bolts. I’ve drilled many broken bolts in the last month, even had to helicoil a couple.
 

MarkM

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the problem is it’s a high vibration and high stress component, add to that the grade 8 bolt is harder than the cast iron block, the biggest issue is over torquing the bolts. I’ve drilled many broken bolts in the last month, even had to helicoil a couple.

Oh I completely agree with torque being a main consideration. Is there room in the head to drill and tap for a larger stud? And I understand using a harder bolt if that breaks it can make removing more problematic. Just a bad design for the heft of the alternator.

Mark
 
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