Anyone Grid tied their generator?

[Eliteweapons]

I searched but couldn't find this topic covered here. I am thinking about a project, but it seems to keep going way off course with the connectivity options. I wanted to grid tie the genset to put power back to the grid offsetting my usage. I know most gensets are not pure sine wave so it would be an instant boom that is why I am asking for other options. I thought about using a solar inverter but the power source needs to be DC and a big enough one is a really expensive test device. I have read about other options using a motor to overspeed another motor producing synchronous grid 60 hz power. Anyone else done this or thought about it?

Thanks

 

[porkysplace]

I would bet the biggest hurdle will be the power company . Unless it is solar or wind they won't buy it .

 

[Eliteweapons]

I already have solar but am going to change some things around to use less gas and more electric. That is why I am considering this. They won't know any different where the power is coming from and I am not trying to use it to really overproduce for money.

 

[Farmitall]

You will never generate electricity from a fuel powered generator cheaper than you can draw it off the grid. The costs DO NOT add up.

 

[Bmxenbrett]

Like farmitall said. You can never generate 10kw cheaper than the power company can buy mega watts. Its also not a UL approved generator and has no ability to disconnect from the grid if the power goes out.

 

[Eliteweapons]

I am not planning on running it all the time. I am planning on making a cogen plant out of it heating and electricity. I work with cogen systems and was going to build a small one for my house if cost effective. I was also going to use it as a standby generator.

 

[Triple Jim]

You can synchronize the generator to commercial power with a light bulb, and then connect it, but as stated above, the power company almost certainly won't like it if they figure out you did it. And as stated above, any power you put back into the grid will cost you many times more in fuel than the amount it will reduce your bill. If you have a lot of excess power from the generator, go to a smaller generator and pocket the fuel savings directly. That savings will be much bigger.

At least one of the guys here used to synchronize his MEP to his commercial power and connect them, and then use the grid as a load bank. Doing that once in a while to load test a generator probably won't attract any attention, but you'd better fully understand how to do that safely before attempting it!

 

[Guyfang]

You could find a sync circuit from an old MEP-005A or 006A. Not a problem. Like Triple Jim told you, its not hard. BUT, you risk more then you will ever know in problems if it ever gets out. I might buy a burner cell phone and call the power company and ask questions. If you do not hear anything you like or want to hear, toss the phone into the swamp.

 

[Light in the Dark]

You could find a sync circuit from an old MEP-005A or 006A. Not a problem. Like Triple Jim told you, its not hard. BUT, you risk more then you will ever know in problems if it ever gets out. I might buy a burner cell phone and call the power company and ask questions. If you do not hear anything you like or want to hear, toss the phone into the swamp.

International Man of Mystery.

 

[DieselAddict]

Strongly advise against it. I've seen it go badly with a megawatt sized generator. Had to replace a bunch of parts. It was ugly. Cool to witness but ugly.

The grid don't play. It will trash your stuff and not even blink.

 

[rhurey]

And then send you a bill for the power it used to do so.

 

[Chainbreaker]

Perhaps using the legal way, where permitted, would be to have a solar array system charging battery bank with any excess power going back into grid. When at a power deficit (cloudy etc. coupled with a power outage) use something like a 28 VDC MEP-501a generator to charge the battery bank. Of course, the initial solar setup is going to cost some $$. I'm sure there are several solar off-grid guru websites that have done something similar.

https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?90702-tell-me-about-the-MEP-501A

 

[frank8003]

What is suggested to be done in post #1 is dangerous.
If it was to be connected to the "grid" and the driver failed then it will still spin at the 60 Hz rotor speed.
Very expensive and dangerous load.
The power companies must protect the system/humans.
Here, read some of this.

http://www.ewh.ieee.org/r6/san_francisco/pes/pes_pdf/Gen_Protection.pdf

 

[Farmitall]

And then send you a bill for the power it used to do so.

Along with legal fees and repair costs.

 

[Eliteweapons]

I think everyone is missing something. I already have a solar system and want to supplement my power when I switch more over to electric. I have a 43 panel system that is already grid tied (no batteries) with a title II power generating certificate. I am asking for the safest way to keep my bill at zero using a cogen system to offset my electric costs while producing heat for the house and garage. My consideration of a power inverter that is certified for a grid tie is the most expensive option hence why I am asking for other suggestions. I am not going to just willy nilly plug this in. I am asking questions if someone has done this before and best methods and practices. I appreciate all the cautions and that is why I am asking for help to consider all factors.

Thanks

 

[Farmitall]

I think everyone is missing something. I already have a solar system and want to supplement my power when I switch more over to electric. I have a 43 panel system that is already grid tied (no batteries) with a title II power generating certificate. I am asking for the safest way to keep my bill at zero using a cogen system to offset my electric costs while producing heat for the house and garage. My consideration of a power inverter that is certified for a grid tie is the most expensive option hence why I am asking for other suggestions. I am not going to just willy nilly plug this in. I am asking questions if someone has done this before and best methods and practices. I appreciate all the cautions and that is why I am asking for help to consider all factors.

Thanks

See post #4.

You cannot generate power from a fuel burning generator cheaper than you can buy it from the grid.

Fuel, set up costs for various devices, maintenance, etc. Its false economy no matter how you slice it.

Fuel ranges from $2.40 to $2.89 per gallon. At 1 gallon per hour(conservatively) that's $25.00 to $30.00 for ten hours running time.
Add in your labor to keep the set fueled, possible failure/breakage of parts, on and on.
Generators are meant for alternate power sources when the grid goes down, and primary power sources where grid power is not available, not grid supplementation. Having a solar setup where there are rebates, financing and power from the sun is a whole different ball game.
If my power company was raking me that bad on power prices, I'd go off grid in a heartbeat and be done with it.
I had three poles with the primary lines run into my property with two service drop transformers, both 400amp services and it didn't cost me a penny. I called for power on a Thursday afternoon and 0800 Monday morning the pole and over head crews were pulling in my driveway. They were here and gone in 3 hours.
My electric rates are the cheapest I've ever encountered in my life. So until the rates rise beyond what I can generate my own for, I'll stay connected. My generator is for the possibility of a long term power outage, what ever the cause may be.

You can't make power cheaper than the power company using a generator.

 

[Eliteweapons]

You are missing the point. My cost is mostly in natural gas. I want to negate that by switching to an electric boiler that will also be powered by the genset and the genset will also be recovering the heat to heat the house as well. I spent $460 last month is gas. I plan on trying to mix 50% waste oil with fuel oil for the genset reducing my fuel cost more. I also considered a waste oil boiler but a CHP system would burn just a little more fuel and give over 150% efficiency for my heat and power requirements vs fuel cost.

 

[Farmitall]

You are missing the point. My cost is mostly in natural gas. I want to negate that by switching to an electric boiler that will also be powered by the genset and the genset will also be recovering the heat to heat the house as well. I spent $460 last month is gas. I plan on trying to mix 50% waste oil with fuel oil for the genset reducing my fuel cost more. I also considered a waste oil boiler but a CHP system would burn just a little more fuel and give over 150% efficiency for my heat and power requirements vs fuel cost.

Ok, I said my piece. I'm sure the hive will be along to warn you on the waste oil issue.

BTW, how is your solar back feed system not reducing or eliminating your power bill? A friend just had a 48 panel system installed and he's in the northeast and already making money on it.

 

[Chainbreaker]

I think everyone is missing something. I already have a solar system and want to supplement my power when I switch more over to electric. I have a 43 panel system that is already grid tied (no batteries) with a title II power generating certificate. I am asking for the safest way to keep my bill at zero using a cogen system to offset my electric costs while producing heat for the house and garage. My consideration of a power inverter that is certified for a grid tie is the most expensive option hence why I am asking for other suggestions. I am not going to just willy nilly plug this in. I am asking questions if someone has done this before and best methods and practices. I appreciate all the cautions and that is why I am asking for help to consider all factors.

Thanks

Yes, everyone is missing something and that's on you for not explaining your situation very well in your initial post. You are dribbling out information only after everyone is forced to guess as to your objective and present configuration. For what you want to do you might get better suggestions & answers in a Solar Power forum where applications and configuration of specific grid tied solar equipment are being discussed. What you are wanting to do is NOT SPECIFIC to owning a certain MEP generator or any other non-military generator.

 

[Eliteweapons]

Yes, everyone is missing something and that's on you for not explaining your situation very well in your initial post. You are dribbling out information only after everyone is forced to guess as to your objective and present configuration. For what you want to do you might get better suggestions & answers in a Solar Power forum where applications and configuration of specific grid tied solar equipment are being discussed. What you are wanting to do is NOT SPECIFIC to owning a certain MEP generator or any other non-military generator.

I am not trying to offend anyone here. I value the input, experience and knowledge that others have that is why I ask questions. The basic question I asked was a simple one about connectivity OPTIONS. Further information as to why, what for and so on seem irrelevant. I am seeking options and others experience if they had already done something like this on a small scale. Why reinvent the wheel right? We have two 8 megawatt gas/diesel turbine co-generation plants at work that power a few of the buildings with steam and electrical power. We also feed power back to the electric company in some cases. My "dribbling" of information was a response to questions about the why, what for and so on. To answer another question "dribble more information" I already have 43 panels on my garage that almost eliminate my ELECTRIC bill but I use gas to heat my house and garage. Last months gas bill was over $400. My goal is to eliminate the gas expense by switching to other heating means so if I am going to make electricity for my electric boiler why not reclaim the otherwise lost heat produced by the engine?