ATF red dye?

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

Exempt as long as your using less than 400 gallons a quarter, Page 4 about the 2nd line, starts with Exclusions

Got this from the IRS, gave the first person such a hard time about giving me a "I think" answer and not a black and white one, that they took my name and number and refered it to a "senior technician" the next day they called back and sent this to my email.

The other 2, one is a copy of my NC blenders lic. and the other is a sample fuel report. Now the fuel reports are done online, makes it real fast and easy as long as I can remember my password
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Thank you for gathering and sharing FACTS !

Here's a Three-Day Pass. Enjoy your weekend, Soldier!!! LOL

 

[Ford Mechanic]

Thank you for gathering and sharing FACTS !

Here's a Three-Day Pass. Enjoy your weekend, Soldier!!! LOL

Thanks Chaplain,
Every one here is quick to help in the trouble shooting of our various trucks, just trying to do my part and return the favor.

 

[Ford Mechanic]

I'd really like to know.

I haven't forgotten, as soon as I can get caught up here at work I'll try to get a answer for you. One day it's like a one legged man in a butt kicking contest, the next it's sittin around most of the day for just 2 services......

 

[BilgePump]

JP5 or JP8...when I was in it was referred to by either JP# or as Fuel Oil......never diesel....only the motor itself was called diesel...

 

[steelypip]

JP5 or JP8...when I was in it was referred to by either JP# or as Fuel Oil......never diesel....only the motor itself was called diesel...

That's because JPx is not a fuel specific to Diesel engines. JP, in fact, stands for Jet Propellant. USAF used to use JP4, USN used JP5 (which was supposed to be less dangerous on shipboard). JP8 is the NATO standard 'One Fuel to Power Them All' adopted in the 1980s - everything from backpack gensets to battleships was spec'd to run on it, so it has a distillate makeup, additive package, and cetane rating that make it work OK in gas turbines, diesel engines, and as a boiler fuel oil. I wouldn't be surprised if it substituted OK for RP-1 as well.

JP7 doesn't exist unless you're flying certain airplanes only some of which exist. You can see the result of JP7 burning in my avatar photo.

 

[g2065g]

Sunlight does remove the red color. I found that out by chance alone. I don't drive my little f350 enough to risk a buck a gallon vs the potential legal trouble / fines.

 

[doskiez]

Exempt as long as your using less than 400 gallons a quarter, Page 4 about the 2nd line, starts with Exclusions

Got this from the IRS, gave the first person such a hard time about giving me a "I think" answer and not a black and white one, that they took my name and number and refered it to a "senior technician" the next day they called back and sent this to my email.

The other 2, one is a copy of my NC blenders lic. and the other is a sample fuel report. Now the fuel reports are done online, makes it real fast and easy as long as I can remember my password
View attachment 434079View attachment 434080View attachment 434081

Thanks a ton for your post. I am currently researching for my Texas blenders license (Which I will get as soon as I can pay the rediculous bond the make you get). The less than 400 gallons exemption for Fed will help in my situation since I plan on running it in only my truck for personal use I missed that part when I was researching.
Thanks

 

[Hainebd]

Ok. I am so confused. Can we run waste oil or not? If I track my waste oil, road deisel purchased and mileage of truck and pay my road use tax and recover any road taxed paid on fuel used off road on income tax. O forget it I just use road deisel.

 

[commandojeff]

Ok. I am so confused. Can we run waste oil or not? If I track my waste oil, road deisel purchased and mileage of truck and pay my road use tax and recover any road taxed paid on fuel used off road on income tax. O forget it I just use road deisel.

Yes. The government just doesn't want you using offroad diesel because it's taxed less. I would be hesitant to use anything that makes your filters look red. If ATF does that, don't use it.

I don't see why it's a huge debate. Just use road diesel and make your truck happy.

 

[doghead]

Ok. I am so confused. Can we run waste oil or not? If I track my waste oil, road deisel purchased and mileage of truck and pay my road use tax and recover any road taxed paid on fuel used off road on income tax. O forget it I just use road deisel.

The rules in your state are probably not the same as anywhere else. You can't even dispense fuel yourself in NJ, can you?

 

[Hainebd]

Diesel yes. Gasoline is big fine if caught putting gas in your vehicle. Gas can is gray. Most stations will let u pump into a can. I try to use the neighborhood station since they are fair with price and service.

 

[Beyond Biodiesel]

Ok. I am so confused. Can we run waste oil or not? If I track my waste oil, road deisel purchased and mileage of truck and pay my road use tax and recover any road taxed paid on fuel used off road on income tax. O forget it I just use road deisel.

I hear some states are down right vicious about alternative fuels. I have been burning waste oil-based fuels on my diesel engine in Arizona for 7 years, and I have my processing equipment attached to my rear bumper, which would be a red-flag if ADOT cared.

I have researched the federal laws and some of the state laws. Essentially we are allowed to burn a certain amount of DIY diesel; however, proving how much you burned becomes an issue when DOT has pulled you over. I have heard they ticket you for the tax paid on all of the miles on your odometer, which could be stiff for a 6 digit odometer on a 40 year old truck.

So, I propose that anyone concerned purchase a license from the Feds and state for burning your own DIY diesel. Just purchase a permit for the smallest amount, which will probably be a few hundred gallons for 10s of dollars, because you are only paying the tax on the fuel at that point. And, do carry your tax permits with you in your vehicle, and do carry any receipts for fuel purchased.

I blend gasoline at 20% with my waste oil DIY fuel, so I carry those receipts with me to prove I bought fuel.

 

[TechnoWeenie]

Easy.

Put a lock on your fuel fill.

Tell them to get a warrant.

They need a reason to believe that you're using dyed fuels, and refusing to let them dip is not sufficient.

What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty, in this country?

 

[patracy]

Easy.

Put a lock on your fuel fill.

Tell them to get a warrant.

They need a reason to believe that you're using dyed fuels, and refusing to let them dip is not sufficient.

What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty, in this country?

That would do nothing. They'd just drain at the fuel filter.

Easiest way would be to simply follow the law.

 

[Recovry4x4]

Easy.

Put aIlock on your fuel fill.

Tell them to get a warrant.

They need a reason to believe that you're using dyed fuels, and refusing to let them dip is not sufficient.

What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty, in this country?

I'm afraid this won't work for you. DOT isn't overly concerned with your fuel but the IRS is. If DOT requests a field agent and you require them to get a warrant, they will. In the mean time your vehicle impounded until they get around to obtaining the warrant. In a week or 3 when they get it, they will check the fuel. If they find the dye you get popped. If they don't you may or may not get an apology but you will get one heck of a towing and storage bill. You can comlain or initiate a law suite but unless you are Carlos Slim, you won't have enough money to win.

 

[TechnoWeenie]

That would do nothing. They'd just drain at the fuel filter.

Easiest way would be to simply follow the law.

.........Which would constitute a search. A search without consent is per se unreasonable with few exceptions. 1. Warrant 2. Exigent Circumstances.

Exigent circumstances do not exist, leaving #1, warrant.

Warrants require PC, there must be a reason to believe that there is a crime occurring, and that the search will reveal evidence of the crime. There must be articulable facts as to why there is sufficient reason to believe that a crime is taking place, and the evidence is to be found in the place(s) named on the warrant to be issued.

Much like refusing a search of your car is not PC for a warrant, refusing to dip is likewise not PC for a warrant.

However, with as corrupt a system as we have, it wouldn't surprise me if one were issued.

Commercial drivers may be different, as I'm sure some states require prior consent built into their CDL requirements, requiring you comply with dippers.

 

[patracy]

However, with as corrupt a system as we have, it wouldn't surprise me if one were issued.

So a corrupt system gives one the right to violate law?

What's the old saying "two wrongs don't make a right".

 

[TechnoWeenie]

So a corrupt system gives one the right to violate law?

What's the old saying "two wrongs don't make a right".

I'm not sure which side you're coming from.

I will iterate a few things though..

1. Dumping ATF into your tank is not against the law, it's an additive, not a fuel, in the quantities generally used.
2. Even IF it were 'against the law', an unconstitutional law is no law at all.
3. Similarly, a warrant issued without PC, or without listing a place to search, is no warrant at all.
4. Moral, and legal, are two different things, a majority of the time.

WA state, as most states do, have a 'you must let police do an equipment inspection at any time' law, which is clearly unconstitutional, however, since you have to have standing in order to fight it, you have to be subject to an unlawful inspection before you can contest it, and those who have been subject to it in the past have not been willing to contest it.

Those willing to stand up, whether it be to dippers (revenuers), or to State Police/Patrol doing unlawful equipment inspections (under the hood = search), force the agencies to get a warrant, but a warrant can't be legally issued because no PC exists for one. Again, one will probably be issued anyway, but that gives you more ammo to use against them in further court proceedings.

Not a political post, merely one pointing out how the legal system is supposed to work.

Edit: I use TCW3, which is a marine 2 stroke oil, for lubricity, and it dyes my fuel a nice ocean blue, heh... so, with ATF, TCW3, and oil (in amounts not classified as fuel, but 'additives') I have a nice deep purplish fuel. hhahaha

 

[patracy]

I personally don't run off-road fuel in my on-road vehicles since it's tax evasion. And since it's a headache and could lead to legal issues, I don't pour ATF in my fuel tanks either.

Your access to the roads isn't a right, it's a privilege.

 

[porkysplace]

I'm not sure which side you're coming from.

I will iterate a few things though..

1. Dumping ATF into your tank is not against the law, it's an additive, not a fuel, in the quantities generally used.
2. Even IF it were 'against the law', an unconstitutional law is no law at all.
3. Similarly, a warrant issued without PC, or without listing a place to search, is no warrant at all.
4. Moral, and legal, are two different things, a majority of the time.

WA state, as most states do, have a 'you must let police do an equipment inspection at any time' law, which is clearly unconstitutional, however, since you have to have standing in order to fight it, you have to be subject to an unlawful inspection before you can contest it, and those who have been subject to it in the past have not been willing to contest it.

Those willing to stand up, whether it be to dippers (revenuers), or to State Police/Patrol doing unlawful equipment inspections (under the hood = search), force the agencies to get a warrant, but a warrant can't be legally issued because no PC exists for one. Again, one will probably be issued anyway, but that gives you more ammo to use against them in further court proceedings.

Not a political post, merely one pointing out how the legal system is supposed to work.

Edit: I use TCW3, which is a marine 2 stroke oil, for lubricity, and it dies my fuel a nice ocean blue, heh... so, with ATF, TCW3, and oil (in amounts not classified as fuel, but 'additives') I have a nice deep purplish fuel. hhahaha

Read the fine print when you sign the application for your drivers license of vehicle regisration . You agree to the inspections when you sign your name.