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Bad Bill for Title Military Surplus Off Road Moves to Virginia Senate
- Thread starter donkren
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At least one inspection station is still passing M35A2 trucks as of today -
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You can remove Idaho from your ****list. Idaho's law states "
[FONT="]10 49-458. MILITARY VEHICLES. Notwithstanding any provisions of law to[/FONT]
[FONT="]11 the contrary, a vehicle built for the United States armed forces may be reg-[/FONT]
[FONT="]12 istered and operated on public highways of this state,"[/FONT]
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As a graduate of an Idaho high school and the University of Idaho I'm happy to see my former compatriots have come to their senses.
MaverickH1
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I think the changes will start to trickle through around July in VA. That was something one of the members of our group heard from the State Trooper.
2wheels70
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This all has been an enlightening and interesting read
Reinforcement in my lack of trust towards any governing body
Reinforcement in my lack of trust towards any governing body
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Posted today by Military Vehicles Magazine
Victory in Virginia! The bill to Title Military Surplus Off-Road Vehicles Becomes Law
Good News, Governor Ralph Northam signed pro-hobby legislation (H.B. 1323) into a law! The new law will allow qualifying military vehicles to be registered and operated on public roadways as “antiques”. In Virginia, a “military surplus off-road motor vehicle" is defined as a High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle (or HMMWV, a vehicle more commonly known as a Humvee) that was manufactured by or under the direction of the United States Armed Forces and subsequently authorized for sale to civilians. Additionally, a favorable amendment was made to allow currently registered military vehicles to retain registration without the “antique” designation.
Victory in Virginia! The bill to Title Military Surplus Off-Road Vehicles Becomes Law
Good News, Governor Ralph Northam signed pro-hobby legislation (H.B. 1323) into a law! The new law will allow qualifying military vehicles to be registered and operated on public roadways as “antiques”. In Virginia, a “military surplus off-road motor vehicle" is defined as a High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle (or HMMWV, a vehicle more commonly known as a Humvee) that was manufactured by or under the direction of the United States Armed Forces and subsequently authorized for sale to civilians. Additionally, a favorable amendment was made to allow currently registered military vehicles to retain registration without the “antique” designation.
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That law (or at least the blurb posted) only seems to cover HMMWVs, aside from the last part about "currently registered." What about M939, FMTV, or other vehicles that are purchased in the future?
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This from
Ed Edwards Summary of the Senate Subcommittee hearing on HB1323
1 Win 1 Loss
In short, we will be able to title and register our HMMWVs and military vehicles as personal vehicles, HOWEVER we will be unable to have the safety inspection after July 1st, 2018. Therefore, no inspection means no use of standard plates. For those that want the new Former Military Vehicle tags for the purposes specified in the rules, then it will work just fine for their purposes. HMMWVs and military vehicles that are old enough can be titled as an antique, with all rules and regulations of the antique tag.
Get your HMMWV or military vehicle safety inspected in June.
I personally believe a couple of months after this supposed notice goes out on July 1st, vehicle inspectors will forget or simply be uninformed on these safety inspections. Keep in mind that these state inspections will technically be void, despite having them.
A special thank you to those that went today,
Austen Schwendnd, Kelly Cobean Cobean, David and Rhonda Glass Glass, Richard Tatum, and Daniel Urban.
Today in Richmond at the capital building we voiced our concerns on proposed HB1323. Austen Schwend was the rallying voice of our group and laid down the reasons why the current wordage of this bill would be detrimental to our ownership of HMMWVs and military vehicles. Senator Yancey originally sponsored the bill with the aid of the Captain Ronald C. Maxey, Jr., Safety Officer in charge of Virginia safety inspections. Originally this bill was designed to assist people who bought military surplus vehicles such as 5 tons, deuce and a halfs, and HMMWVs to register and title their vehicle. The version of the bill that we were against today would have revoked all current titled military vehicle registrations on January 1st, 2019 and forced everyone to re-register their vehicle as a Former Military Vehicle (FMV). This bill would have been detrimental to many HMMWV and military vehicle owners in VA who use theirs as a somewhat daily driver. This bill would have made it practically illegal to drive a HMMWV or military vehicle for business reasons, errands, work, school, etc. This plate would also restrict driving to 125 miles and to and from specific events, parades, etc.
1 Win
We were able to have this bill amended to remove the part where the DMV would revoke registrations and force re-registration in 2019. This bill would also clarify that a HMMWV and military vehicle can be registered as a personal vehicle with plates and titles corresponding. HB1323 kept the creation of a new FMV plate, with all the rules and regulations to follow. HMMWVs can also be titled as an antique vehicle with all rules and regulations to follow.
1 Loss
Despite now having the clarity of a HMMWV and military vehicle registration and how it can be registered, the pompous Captain Ronald C. Maxey, Jr. vowed to make a memorandum throughout all safety inspection stations that HMMWVs and military vehicles would be rejected any inspection sticker as it did not comply with the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) of the year it was produced. Maxey also seemed to contradict and make foolish assumptions of law. He believes that the date of manufacture is the day the HMMWV or military vehicle was sold to the buyer, therefore, you would have to comply with all FMVSS of the date that you bought the vehicle. Maxis continued in saying that we would not have a problem if AM GENERAL sent out a statement saying something along the lines of all HMMWVs comply with FMVSS of the date of manufacture.
Summary:
Personal Use Plates
-You will be able to register and title military vehicles with personal use plates
-Despite being able to get a title and registration, you will be unable to get a safety inspection.
Antique Plates
-If your military vehicles is over 25 years old you will be able to register your military vehicles as an antique
-All the rules and regulations of a normal antique vehicle.
Former Military Vehicle Plates
-Many of the rules of a FMV plate are similar as antique tag regulations.
-No age requirement of vehicle
-Limited to 125 mile “pleasure” trips (Antique is 250 miles)
-$100 registration fee (Antique is $50)
-Punishment for not following the rules will be the same punishment as abusing antique tags
- Punishment for abuse of a antique tag is
“Any owner of an antique motor vehicle or antique trailer registered with license plates pursuant to this section who is convicted of a violation of this section is guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor. Upon receiving a record of conviction of a violation of this section, the Department shall revoke and not reinstate the owner's privilege to register the vehicle operated in violation of this section with license plates issued or authorized for use pursuant to this section for a period of five years from the date of conviction.”
Ed Edwards Summary of the Senate Subcommittee hearing on HB1323
1 Win 1 Loss
In short, we will be able to title and register our HMMWVs and military vehicles as personal vehicles, HOWEVER we will be unable to have the safety inspection after July 1st, 2018. Therefore, no inspection means no use of standard plates. For those that want the new Former Military Vehicle tags for the purposes specified in the rules, then it will work just fine for their purposes. HMMWVs and military vehicles that are old enough can be titled as an antique, with all rules and regulations of the antique tag.
Get your HMMWV or military vehicle safety inspected in June.
I personally believe a couple of months after this supposed notice goes out on July 1st, vehicle inspectors will forget or simply be uninformed on these safety inspections. Keep in mind that these state inspections will technically be void, despite having them.
A special thank you to those that went today,
Austen Schwendnd, Kelly Cobean Cobean, David and Rhonda Glass Glass, Richard Tatum, and Daniel Urban.
Today in Richmond at the capital building we voiced our concerns on proposed HB1323. Austen Schwend was the rallying voice of our group and laid down the reasons why the current wordage of this bill would be detrimental to our ownership of HMMWVs and military vehicles. Senator Yancey originally sponsored the bill with the aid of the Captain Ronald C. Maxey, Jr., Safety Officer in charge of Virginia safety inspections. Originally this bill was designed to assist people who bought military surplus vehicles such as 5 tons, deuce and a halfs, and HMMWVs to register and title their vehicle. The version of the bill that we were against today would have revoked all current titled military vehicle registrations on January 1st, 2019 and forced everyone to re-register their vehicle as a Former Military Vehicle (FMV). This bill would have been detrimental to many HMMWV and military vehicle owners in VA who use theirs as a somewhat daily driver. This bill would have made it practically illegal to drive a HMMWV or military vehicle for business reasons, errands, work, school, etc. This plate would also restrict driving to 125 miles and to and from specific events, parades, etc.
1 Win
We were able to have this bill amended to remove the part where the DMV would revoke registrations and force re-registration in 2019. This bill would also clarify that a HMMWV and military vehicle can be registered as a personal vehicle with plates and titles corresponding. HB1323 kept the creation of a new FMV plate, with all the rules and regulations to follow. HMMWVs can also be titled as an antique vehicle with all rules and regulations to follow.
1 Loss
Despite now having the clarity of a HMMWV and military vehicle registration and how it can be registered, the pompous Captain Ronald C. Maxey, Jr. vowed to make a memorandum throughout all safety inspection stations that HMMWVs and military vehicles would be rejected any inspection sticker as it did not comply with the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) of the year it was produced. Maxey also seemed to contradict and make foolish assumptions of law. He believes that the date of manufacture is the day the HMMWV or military vehicle was sold to the buyer, therefore, you would have to comply with all FMVSS of the date that you bought the vehicle. Maxis continued in saying that we would not have a problem if AM GENERAL sent out a statement saying something along the lines of all HMMWVs comply with FMVSS of the date of manufacture.
Summary:
Personal Use Plates
-You will be able to register and title military vehicles with personal use plates
-Despite being able to get a title and registration, you will be unable to get a safety inspection.
Antique Plates
-If your military vehicles is over 25 years old you will be able to register your military vehicles as an antique
-All the rules and regulations of a normal antique vehicle.
Former Military Vehicle Plates
-Many of the rules of a FMV plate are similar as antique tag regulations.
-No age requirement of vehicle
-Limited to 125 mile “pleasure” trips (Antique is 250 miles)
-$100 registration fee (Antique is $50)
-Punishment for not following the rules will be the same punishment as abusing antique tags
- Punishment for abuse of a antique tag is
“Any owner of an antique motor vehicle or antique trailer registered with license plates pursuant to this section who is convicted of a violation of this section is guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor. Upon receiving a record of conviction of a violation of this section, the Department shall revoke and not reinstate the owner's privilege to register the vehicle operated in violation of this section with license plates issued or authorized for use pursuant to this section for a period of five years from the date of conviction.”
Antique Plates
-If your military vehicles is over 25 years old you will be able to register your military vehicles as an antique
-All the rules and regulations of a normal antique vehicle.
The bill reads....
E. Military surplus motor vehicles registered with the Department under any other provision of this
Code prior to January 1, 2019, may continue to be registered under such provision. Such vehicles shall
be considered to be registered under this section for the purpose of § 46.2
-1158.01. In the event that
any such vehicle is transferred to a new owner, the vehicle must be registered pursuant to this section.
F. No military surplus motor vehicle shall be registered as an antique vehicle pursuant to
§ 46.2
-730
I understand that to say no more antique tags for us..
-If your military vehicles is over 25 years old you will be able to register your military vehicles as an antique
-All the rules and regulations of a normal antique vehicle.
The bill reads....
E. Military surplus motor vehicles registered with the Department under any other provision of this
Code prior to January 1, 2019, may continue to be registered under such provision. Such vehicles shall
be considered to be registered under this section for the purpose of § 46.2
-1158.01. In the event that
any such vehicle is transferred to a new owner, the vehicle must be registered pursuant to this section.
F. No military surplus motor vehicle shall be registered as an antique vehicle pursuant to
§ 46.2
-730
I understand that to say no more antique tags for us..
jpfever
Member
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Looks like Virginia is becoming more like Maryland everyday. Its too **** bad that I live in Maryland. I know that I will not be moving back to Virginia. It sounds like uneducated law makers passing laws that don't understand that Military vehicles were built to comply with FMVSS, unless FMVSS would interfere with the primary mission of the vehicle. MIL-STD-1180B
Foreward
Although vehicles and equipment manufactured for, and sold to, the Armed Forces of the United States in conformity with contractual specifications are specifically exempted from the provisions of the Federal Motor Safety Standards (FMVS), it is the established policy of the Army to comply with the intent of those standards as long as compliance does not degrade essential military characteristics. With the same limitation, compliance with applicable provisions of (Federal) Motor Carrier Safety Regulations (MCSR) is an Army requirement.
This military standard provides guidance to assure proper safety characteristics associated with FMVSS are designed into military vehicles in a consistent manner. In establishing this standard, full consideration has been given to the following constraints listed in order of precedence:
(a) Military mission requirements.
(b) Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard and Motor Carrier Safety Regulations
....
The rest is there for elected officials to review. But I have made my point and there are states friendly to FMVs. Its a shame the Commonwealth has followed the ways of those non-friendly uneducated states who has gotten buy in or pay offs from certain government vehicle contractors.
Foreward
Although vehicles and equipment manufactured for, and sold to, the Armed Forces of the United States in conformity with contractual specifications are specifically exempted from the provisions of the Federal Motor Safety Standards (FMVS), it is the established policy of the Army to comply with the intent of those standards as long as compliance does not degrade essential military characteristics. With the same limitation, compliance with applicable provisions of (Federal) Motor Carrier Safety Regulations (MCSR) is an Army requirement.
This military standard provides guidance to assure proper safety characteristics associated with FMVSS are designed into military vehicles in a consistent manner. In establishing this standard, full consideration has been given to the following constraints listed in order of precedence:
(a) Military mission requirements.
(b) Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard and Motor Carrier Safety Regulations
....
The rest is there for elected officials to review. But I have made my point and there are states friendly to FMVs. Its a shame the Commonwealth has followed the ways of those non-friendly uneducated states who has gotten buy in or pay offs from certain government vehicle contractors.
Last edited:
cwajciec
Member
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Has anyone gotten their hmmwv registered under the new FMV law similar to antique? I have a registration due in December and was planning on registering FMV in VA.
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The sad thing about this bill is the precedent and case law it creates. Louisiana tried copying this bill and thank fully, it was almost completely eliminated and changed before the final law that passed.
Don't ever think what happens in another state does not affect you. There is always the indirect influence.
Don't ever think what happens in another state does not affect you. There is always the indirect influence.
L1A1
Active member
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Need to have a closer look at West Virginia. This law effectively puts me (and a lot of others) out of the MV hobby.... Think I liked Va better when it was red..............
Matt
Matt
cucvmule
collector of stuff
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Umm WOW, Thank the People that have taken the time from their families to be proactive as possible to find reasonable solutions for all concerned.
Now the hmm, the DOT rep, the H.P., is obviously pissed at someone in the hobby, use of in any form Military Equipment. We all are Ambassadors of O.D. Green or Desert Tan and should be on our best behavior even though some person see's it different in their own selfish world and calls a Peace Officer to assist the would be complainant.
Instead of trying to find solutions to work out some of the formalities, to which (1. Safety Inspections 2. Emission Test, 3. Titling), would be compliant, the H.P. Representative instead acted like a hardass with no solution given. Maybe a call by a Legislator to the Captain's Superior Officer may have a person of civility come forth from the H.P. and HELP find some common ground to the wording of the Laws to be Promulgated.
Unfortunately once Laws are written the amending later is the hard part because it may make someone look foolish and then hard to budge later with some changes. Once the language is being written the person writing is lobbied for their interest. That is the time to strike while the iron is hot, MONEY.
The People that are being proactive in their State (before it is in the news), and that are working on the language for Laws, paying a lobbyist, will get most of what they want.
Another avenue is that a Legislator works on the Bill, or an intern for such, and then the music starts.
At least they worked on some language clarification before being voted on, but the Trooper will always have ways to get what they want just for safety sake.
There are Peace Officers and there are Law Enforcement Officers.
Now the hmm, the DOT rep, the H.P., is obviously pissed at someone in the hobby, use of in any form Military Equipment. We all are Ambassadors of O.D. Green or Desert Tan and should be on our best behavior even though some person see's it different in their own selfish world and calls a Peace Officer to assist the would be complainant.
Instead of trying to find solutions to work out some of the formalities, to which (1. Safety Inspections 2. Emission Test, 3. Titling), would be compliant, the H.P. Representative instead acted like a hardass with no solution given. Maybe a call by a Legislator to the Captain's Superior Officer may have a person of civility come forth from the H.P. and HELP find some common ground to the wording of the Laws to be Promulgated.
Unfortunately once Laws are written the amending later is the hard part because it may make someone look foolish and then hard to budge later with some changes. Once the language is being written the person writing is lobbied for their interest. That is the time to strike while the iron is hot, MONEY.
The People that are being proactive in their State (before it is in the news), and that are working on the language for Laws, paying a lobbyist, will get most of what they want.
Another avenue is that a Legislator works on the Bill, or an intern for such, and then the music starts.
At least they worked on some language clarification before being voted on, but the Trooper will always have ways to get what they want just for safety sake.
There are Peace Officers and there are Law Enforcement Officers.
Sethroanoke
New member
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So exactly what am I supposed to do to get the m35a2 I am planning on buying registered in VA? I was not wanting to have restricted usage other than non-commercial use. I wanted to use it as a daily driver.
Can any one give me other options?
Can any one give me other options?
My Indiana rep said it is the manufactures association that is driving Indiana's version of law. They don't want old vehicles on the road so their supporters sell more new ones...thus we have a strong bias against us. But hey, I got almost kicked off SS for wanting a pro-active approach and now I'm just a spectator...have give up on my representative doing any good.
Sethroanoke
New member
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- Roanoke, Va.
From the VA DMV website.
What are the license plate options for MSMVs?
If you already have a registered MSMV, you may continue to register for a standard or special license plate for as long as you own the vehicle.
If you register an MSMV between July 1, 2018 and December 31, 2018, you can obtain one of two license plates:
Military surplus license plate – owner must complete form VSA 10M certifying their use of a second vehicle for daily travel and pay a one-time $100 fee. MSMV driving restrictions apply.
Standard or special license plate – owner must show proof of a current Virginia safety inspection.
If you register a MSMV after December 31, 2018, you are only eligible for military surplus license plates. An owner must complete form VSA 10M and pay a one-time $100 fee. MSMV driving restrictions apply.
What are the license plate options for MSMVs?
If you already have a registered MSMV, you may continue to register for a standard or special license plate for as long as you own the vehicle.
If you register an MSMV between July 1, 2018 and December 31, 2018, you can obtain one of two license plates:
Military surplus license plate – owner must complete form VSA 10M certifying their use of a second vehicle for daily travel and pay a one-time $100 fee. MSMV driving restrictions apply.
Standard or special license plate – owner must show proof of a current Virginia safety inspection.
If you register a MSMV after December 31, 2018, you are only eligible for military surplus license plates. An owner must complete form VSA 10M and pay a one-time $100 fee. MSMV driving restrictions apply.
L1A1
Active member
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So if I understand this correctly, if you currently have an MV (or purchase one in the near future) and put regular tags on it before 12-31-2018, you are good to go? It's only after the December 2018 cut off that the (much) more restrictive plates become the only option?
It's posted in this thread, supposedly, the VaSP rep stated that "no MV is going to pass inspection in Va." Which I interpet to mean that you may have regular tags on your MV now but when it comes up for inspection, it won't pass (no matter what) and you'll either have to buy the more restrictive tags or pull your truck off the road.
Matt