Best laid plans...

[montaillou]

This is my introduction as a new (to me) deuce owner.

First time owning one or anything like it. I'm good at learning new things and figured what the ****.

So, I casually look for a while bid on a few auctions and finally find one in my budget from a member here. Talk to him on a Thursday, talk to my insurance agent on Friday, buy a one way ticket to Salt Lake City from Seattle, fly in on Saturday, chat for a few hours, take a test drive, buy it and head out that night.

Couple days and 550 miles later, get to La Grande, OR - have breakfast and the fuel injector quits on me. I knew the injector had problems, was hoping to get it home and look at it, but **** happens. Fortuitously, La Grande has a Freightliner truck shop in town and is also a Greyhound stop. Injector is at a shop in Portland getting overhauled and I'm waiting...

My future plans are to eventually get a S-280 on the back and do the go-anywhere-camper conversion.

 

[FloridaAKM]

Welcome to the forum & good looking truck. You drove it home, brave man. Only some of us would even attempt that feat. Your truck looks like it has been taken are of & even has a few mods that can be seen in the picture. LED headlights, the muffler & different style of exhaust pipe. Hope you get back on the road & home quickly with no more problems. Also, more pictures when you can.

 

[Elijah95]

The injection issues suck, but I like the LEDs and the truck looks good; congratulations on your first rig, mine broke down 3 times on a 180 miles ride home from purchase


1974 AM General M109A3 w/Deuce Bed, White LDT, Whistler C, and soft top

 

[montaillou]

Your truck looks like it has been taken are of & even has a few mods that can be seen in the picture.

Yeah, I could tell the guy I bought it from had done his best, one of the reasons I felt confident buying it. He'd also done the oil filter spin-off conversion as well as put in a square hitch.

Other pics I took for the insurance co:


One way or another, this thing needs to be good for long trips.

It's a '71 D turbo, btw.

 

[frank8003]

Well .... "an injector" one injector it can't be, or the hydraulic head, which?
Apparently, everything is there but the heater scoop.
Go home and do your 50 hour maintenance.
There is the caution on the multifuel if you are running
the diesel of today. Diesel purchased today has not
the properties of the yesteryear fuel' [lube
properties is to be is in question].
Work, work, work, then She will not let you down.
There is no cure for the disease

 

[glcaines]

I'm assuming you are talking about the injection pump / hydraulic head. What were the symptoms that led you to believe it had failed? Very nice looking deuce by the way.

 

[montaillou]

I'm assuming you are talking about the injection pump / hydraulic head. What were the symptoms that led you to believe it had failed? Very nice looking deuce by the way.

It was a poor starter when cold - which could've been other things certainly. Had to use starter fluid. And when it wouldn't start at all (after an hour of driving at 55, so it was warmed up), 500 miles from home my options were limited. It turned over just fine, I had replaced the batteries the day before.

After being towed to Freightliner it was their diagnosis and it made sense to me, they had pressurized the fuel system, forward of the tank and no fuel was getting past the injector. While I was there, I downloaded the manual, gave the shop a copy and the mechanic said he'd take a look hoping to find a solution.

The Freightliner in La Grande also has a mechanic that had worked on these in the military and he was also consulted. He was off the day the deuce was brought in, but I hung around a day in case it turned out to be an easier fix. The entire injector was pulled and sent out to get repaired/refurbished.

I've since had a preliminary report from the injector rebuild place and the injector is in poor shape. I'm weighing my options to have them rebuild it or buy a rebuilt one from somewhere else and have the fuel density compensater moved over. Most of the rebuilt ones I see don't have the compensater on them and I'd like to maintain that capability. Cost-wise, buying a rebuilt one, having mine rebuilt seems to be a wash, the difference will be the time involved for the latter.

I fully admit I'm a neophyte when it comes to this truck and most engines in general. I know one of my cars by taking time and learning about it and that's my intention here, but I'm certain I don't know all the terminology. I'm also very good with theory and how things work, I pick up stuff fast. There are lots of ideas in my head for this thing, I plan to get to know every inch of it.

The part I'm talking about is this one, minus the fuel density compensater (mine has it, the pic doesn't):



Trip pics, it was a nice day in OR:

 

[red]

That's the fuel injection pump, not the injector.

A common problem with them is what's called the 'button' falls off. Most likely that is what happened here and it costs less than $50 to fix in parts, at most 2 hours of labor.

The injection pump on older diesel engines (non common rail) never just go out on the side of the road unless there is some catastrophic failure. When an injector fails the engine will still run but it will be puffing out alot of black smoke (injector failed open) or your power will be down substantially like you're running on 5 cylinders instead of 6 (injector failed closed).

 

[red]

Reason most of the replacement injection pumps do not have the fuel density compensator is because it is not needed and is prone to leaking fuel into the engine oil. It does not affect the engines ability to run on other fuels (oil, veggy oil, gasoline, etc). All it does is adjust how much fuel is flown through, so no matter what fuel you are burning the engine creates a similar amount of power (basically).

Many who have the FDC bypass it. Don't worry about that right now but for a future upgrade after you get the truck home.

Contact the injection pump shop and have them remove the hydraulic head, install a new button/reinstall the old one, and possibly replace the hydraulic head.

 

[fsearls92]

If you need a NOS injector pump, hit up searls84 on here as he has one for sale out of New Mexico

 

[fsearls92]

Here is a link to his classified ad.


http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?157956-NOS-LDS-465-Injector-Pump

 

[montaillou]

That's the fuel injection pump, not the injector.

A common problem with them is what's called the 'button' falls off. Most likely that is what happened here and it costs less than $50 to fix in parts, at most 2 hours of labor.

The injection pump on older diesel engines (non common rail) never just go out on the side of the road unless there is some catastrophic failure. When an injector fails the engine will still run but it will be puffing out alot of black smoke (injector failed open) or your power will be down substantially like you're running on 5 cylinders instead of 6 (injector failed closed).

The pump is full of seals, why wouldn't some of them fail through time and trials, it hardly seems unreasonable to me. I'd never use the word never when talking about any mechanical part...

Here is a link to his classified ad.

Thanks for that, might be a better option to go with.

I'm not positive, because I only saw it once, but the injection pump in for sale differs a little. Where the fuel shut off assembly is there's a configuration difference. Looking at the manual, mine has the "Timing Window Cover and Fuel Shutoff Rod Assembly" and looking at the ad, it's a "Fuel Shutoff Solenoid CoverAssembly (Code A Injection Pumps)". Is one interchangeable with the other?

 

[red]

The pump is full of seals, why wouldn't some of them fail through time and trials, it hardly seems unreasonable to me. I'd never use the word never when talking about any mechanical part...



Thanks for that, might be a better option to go with.

When the seals in injection pumps go out the fuel will leak either outside the pump or into the engine oil, but it is never a complete loss of flow through the pump. So yes the word NEVER is accurate in this regard. A mechanical failure yes but seals no.

The button falling off is a very common problem on these injection pumps, many threads in this section about it from those who have experienced it before (myself included). The hard start issue from before is often a fuel system issue (usually, not always). Common problems there are clogged filters, plugged lines, in tank pump not working, booster pump failing, hydraulic head weak/failing. Easiest way to diagnose which is to find out your fuel pressure at different spots along the fuel feed line.

 

[montaillou]

Common problems there are clogged filters, plugged lines, in tank pump not working, booster pump failing, hydraulic head weak/failing. Easiest way to diagnose which is to find out your fuel pressure at different spots along the fuel feed line.

The mechanic told me he pulled the fuel filters, cleaned them and fuel stopped at the pump.

 

[fsearls92]

Yes, that pump is completely interchangeable with yours

 

[red]

With the fuel making it to the pump, and not out of the hydraulic head (where the 6 metal fuel lines lead out of the injection pump to the injectors) then it is usually because the button came off or the fuel cutoff plunger is sticking inside the pump.

Checking the cutoff is quick. Remove the rectangular side cover off of the injection pump (about 2" wide, 4" tall, held on with 2 screws) and it is right there.

 

[red]

Fuel pressure should be checked in 2 spots. First is at the fuel tank, needs to be about 5psi. Second spot is after the final fuel filter with the engine turning over, needs to be 32+psi. It can start/run with only 20psi after the final filter but the engine is under powered at that point and is very difficult to start.

If the pressures are low then fuel filters are first check, then possible plugged lines. Since you were driving just fine those should be ok and onto the next step.

If the pressure is low and filters/lines are good, then there is a problem at a pump. There are technically 3 fuel pumps on a multifuel powered truck.
1. In tank pump
2. Booster pump
3. Injection pump

If the fuel pressure is below 3psi after the in tank pump, then there is a problem in the tank with either the pump being plugged or not working. Sounds like yours is fine.

If the pressure is below 32psi after the final filters with clean filters/lines, then the booster pump is worn out. The booster pump is built into the bottom of the injection pump. Again this is not your failure to start point (possibly the hard starting issue, must check the pressure to know).

If the fuel pressure is good after the final filters then the problem is in the injection pump itself. Which the common failures in the injection pump are the button on the hydraulic head, or the fuel shutoff sticking.

 

[Recovry4x4]

FWIW, out of probably 10 deuces I've purchased, drove all but 2 home.

 

[Flyingvan911]

Welcome from Kansas City. Deuces are a bunch of fun. The forum has a ton of info.

 

[rustystud]

The pump is full of seals, why wouldn't some of them fail through time and trials, it hardly seems unreasonable to me. I'd never use the word never when talking about any mechanical part...



Actually the pump is not full of seals. There is just one seal and that is in the booster pump. The rest are 'O' rings. They have no moving parts rubbing against them and only "go out" due to the age of the rubber. The other places that can leak are machined fit pieces like the "control rod" and the "plunger valve" in the Hydraulic Head. This injection pump (correct name by the way) is a real nice unit and was made with extreme accuracy and tolerances for it's time. Having worked on the "modern" pumps and our deuce pumps I can honestly say I would rather have the old deuce pump on my engine. Especially if I was out in the boonies.