Best ways to Research your Deuce's History

[neil2007]

Howdy all!

As many of you may already know, I've recently acquired my first Deuce. I'm needing help researching this and thought this might be a good avenue to help others out in finding the best methods and/or shortcuts to researching their deuce's they may have.

I'm honostly up in the air as to which forum to post this to (early Deuce vs The Deuce), so fogive me if this turns out to be more appropriate for the Early Deuce forum.

Anyway, I'm the proud owner of a 1953 Reo M44 530 B Fire Truck. Serial # 130978

I've documented all the tags at the following url. (These are very high resolution images so you should be able to zoom in a good ways to read any of the text you wish on the tags.)

Http://www.letsgettwisted.com/530b/

I am very interested in getting a very thorough history on this vehicle. Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks!


Neil

 

[Elwenil]

RE: Best ways to Research your Deuce

Good luck, lol. Honestly the best thing to use is sandpaper. The markings on the truck itself under the layers of paint is probably the only record of it's life that is available. Some have service history in them when they are obtained from the US Government, but most do not and as far as I know there isn't anyplace to go to research anything at the Government.

 

[neil2007]

Sorry guys... the link was a dead link... But it's fixed now. (darn explorer and their case sensitive url's!)

 

[neil2007]

Re: RE: Best ways to Research your Deuce

Good luck, lol. Honestly the best thing to use is sandpaper. The markings on the truck itself under the layers of paint is probably the only record of it's life that is available. Some have service history in them when they are obtained from the US Government, but most do not and as far as I know there isn't anyplace to go to research anything at the Government.

I know the local fire departments that it served by paint on the doors. I'm really hoping to find out where it spent the majority of it's service life in the military. I believe it was at an Airforce base in Illinois somplace, but that's only because the glove box contained the registration paperwork for a DODGE TRUCK?!?! from '74.

Back in it's period, was the Army and Airforce one? I'm trying to figure out why it is the US Army Corp of Engineers on the main door tag, but on the hard top (Inside) has a sticker explaining the signal lights for a airport.

Neil

 

[jasonjc]

RE: Re: RE: Best ways to Research your Deuce

The Air Force spilt for the army in the late '40's 50 maybe. They took all the airplanes with them but the Army kept the helicopters. So they still needed airports and fire trucks for the airports. The engineers are the part of the army that has fire fighters. The only why to tell who in the military had the truck would be to look for "bumper numbers" on the back of the truck or the front bumper. Buy lightly sanding away the paint one layer at a time , you mite uncover the old unit numbers/markings. Other than that there is no list of where trucks were used. At lease that you can look up.

 

[neil2007]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Best ways to Research your Deuce

The Air Force spilt for the army in the late '40's 50 maybe. They took all the airplanes with them but the Army kept the helicopters. So they still needed airports and fire trucks for the airports. The engineers are the part of the army that has fire fighters. The only why to tell who in the military had the truck would be to look for "bumper numbers" on the back of the truck or the front bumper. Buy lightly sanding away the paint one layer at a time , you mite uncover the old unit numbers/markings. Other than that there is no list of where trucks were used. At lease that you can look up.

Thanks for the info on the Army Airforce split...

As I mentioned in the original post, this truck happens to have a sticker on the ceiling of the cab that indicates the signal light codes for an air strip.... Do all Fire trucks have this or just the ones that served at an AFB

Once I find the bumper numbers how do I decode them? I'm gonna go out on a limb here... let me guess... the bumper numbers are NOT the same as the vin (serial number) and they are military assigned?

Does anyone have (or can point me to) a list of Bases (at least for the midwest reagion (Indiana, llinois, Kentucky))?

Thanks again for everyone's help!


Neil

 

[jasonjc]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Best ways to Research your Deuce

The signal light stick would be on any vehicle that work on or around an airfield Army or Airforce.
The military assigns a regastrion number when they get a truck. The unit that the truck is assign to then put on a "bumper number". Or think of it this way the reg # is the title and a bumper number is a linsen plate.

 

[67Beast]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Best ways to Research your Deuce

Once I find the bumper numbers how do I decode them? I'm gonna go out on a limb here... let me guess... the bumper numbers are NOT the same as the vin (serial number) and they are military assigned?


Thanks again for everyone's help!


Neil

Bumper numbers, or Unit numbers show usually 4 things in them; (from left to right)
1. Major Command
2. Intermediate command
3. Unit or Activity
4. Vehicles order of march
From these numbers it can be determined what was the unit it served with before being painted over. And no, these will not corrispond with the serial number on the dash. Usually the serial number has no meaning in the Military. Each vehicle is assigned a military registration number upon entering military service. This is the perminent number that identifies the vehicle in the military records. These are commonly called the "hood numbers" becasue they were painted down the sides of the hoods. Now here is the bad news, once you have sanded down the bumper and sides of the hood to find these numbers, you will still have a very hard time finding any info about the vehicle and it's service life. The military did not keep records on the vehicles and where they served. The only hope is to try and talk to someone from the last unit the vehicles served with and hope they can remember anything about that vehicle. Being that your's is a 1953 and has probably spent the last 30 years of its 54 year life in some rural fire dept, finding someone who remembered that truck will be a real streach. Good luck with the hunt.

 

[neil2007]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Best ways to Research your Deuce

The signal light stick would be on any vehicle that work on or around an airfield Army or Airforce.
The military assigns a regastrion number when they get a truck. The unit that the truck is assign to then put on a "bumper number". Or think of it this way the reg # is the title and a bumper number is a linsen plate.

Am I correct in assuming (yes.. I know what it makes me and u when we Assume things) that with this truck being a '53 model that it DID have a military number issued to it at one point and that it wasn't some sort of extra stock that never saw active duty before it served the local fire departments?


Neil

 

[jasonjc]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Best ways to Research your Deuce

More than likely. But you can never tell with the Government.

 

[neil2007]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Best ways to Research your Deuce

Bumper numbers, or Unit numbers show usually 4 things in them; (from left to right)
1. Major Command
2. Intermediate command
3. Unit or Activity
4. Vehicles order of march
From these numbers it can be determined what was the unit it served with before being painted over. And no, these will not corrispond with the serial number on the dash. Usually the serial number has no meaning in the Military. Each vehicle is assigned a military registration number upon entering military service. This is the perminent number that identifies the vehicle in the military records. These are commonly called the "hood numbers" becasue they were painted down the sides of the hoods. Now here is the bad news, once you have sanded down the bumper and sides of the hood to find these numbers, you will still have a very hard time finding any info about the vehicle and it's service life. The military did not keep records on the vehicles and where they served. The only hope is to try and talk to someone from the last unit the vehicles served with and hope they can remember anything about that vehicle. Being that your's is a 1953 and has probably spent the last 30 years of its 54 year life in some rural fire dept, finding someone who remembered that truck will be a real streach. Good luck with the hunt.

Thank you for this information... This is excellent info for those of us who have very little experience with MV's or even the ways of the Military in general...

So this begs me to ask the question " What is the best way to "Authenticate" the originality of a vehicle?"

Neil

 

[Elwenil]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Best ways to Research your Deuce

Does it have military data plates? Civilian models didn't get them though I doubt many (if any) firetrucks were sold as civilian models.

 

[neil2007]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Best ways to Research your Deuce

Does it have military data plates? Civilian models didn't get them though I doubt many (if any) firetrucks were sold as civilian models.

I've got pictures of all the data plates at http:\\www.letsgettwisted.com\530b\

It's got data plates all over it, how do you tell if it's a military data plate or civilian data plate or is there such a thing?


Neil

 

[Elwenil]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Best ways to Research your Deuce

Sorry, forgot about the pics link. I'm no expert, but it definitely looks like a military truck to me. Judging from the data plates and the Civil Defense decals, I'd say it was used by the military, then surplus'd out to a local government for use in the Civil Defense program and probably spent most of it's life there.

 

[neil2007]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Best ways to Research your D

Sorry, forgot about the pics link. I'm no expert, but it definitely looks like a military truck to me. Judging from the data plates and the Civil Defense decals, I'd say it was used by the military, then surplus'd out to a local government for use in the Civil Defense program and probably spent most of it's life there.

So any other suggestions other than:

1. Sanding for bumper and hood numbers.
2. Talking to previous Fire departments/owners

It almost seems like someone (if they had the data plates from an old one could swap the tags over to another m44 and have what would seem like a ligit ORIGINAL 530B.

How can I prove that this is an original and not just a restored/recreated 530b in the future? Is there a way to decode the vin to tell what it was originally built for?


Neil

 

[67Beast]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Best ways to Research your D

It almost seems like someone (if they had the data plates from an old one could swap the tags over to another m44 and have what would seem like a ligit ORIGINAL 530B.

How can I prove that this is an original and not just a restored/recreated 530b in the future? Is there a way to decode the vin to tell what it was originally built for?


Neil

Yes, search for a post here on SS about decoding the vin#s posted by DDoyle.

 

[jasonjc]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Best ways to Research yo

NO there is not. A M44 is just a cab and frame. And the vin will reflect this. the Gov bought the M44's then sent them to the people that built the fire truck boady on it. And the military sent these truck to rebuild programs. where it could be complete rebuilt or even made into another type of truck like a cargo dependeing on the need at the time. These are not like classic car where you will have maching #'s on all the parts. In the military if one truck breaks down parts may be taken off of it to fix another , before the frist one can be fixed.

 

[neil2007]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Best ways to Researc

These are not like classic car where you will have maching #'s on all the parts. In the military if one truck breaks down parts may be taken off of it to fix another , before the frist one can be fixed.

I think you've hit on the thing.... I'm still in "Matching #'s" mode, which is what is driving me to try to find all this out.

I'm mainly trying to determine is were there alot of 530b's made or only a handfull (less than 100)?

If anyone can shed some light on that thought, I'd really appreciate it!

Thanks!


Neil

 

[kc8sfq]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Best ways to Res

Hi there:
The Army Air Corps became the USAF in 1947 (had to remember that for an NCO course. Never thought I'd use it) If it was an AF truck, look for the first digits of the bumper number to be "53KXXX" That indicates that it is a 53 and a tactical truck. The XXX would be the sequential number of all the trucks of that class purchased that year. A Chevy flightline van bought in 72 would 72BXXX. This goes back to the AF tail numbers where the first digits are the year of aqusition. If AF, you might also find the number on the door, just like a commercial truck.

KC8SFQ

 

[jasonjc]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Best ways to Res

David Dolye is the man to ask he knows alot about these. And has witten alot of books on these.