block heaters, pan heaters, dipstick heaters

[Monster Man]

are any of these necessary on a truck you plan to drive in winter? I know a heated block is a good idea in general, but are there any of these devices to avoid? the pan and dipstick style heaters don't seem like they'd do much on such a large engine. What else is available to heat a block? Does the whole engine need to be warm or do you just focus on the oil? I'm new to diesels although my father had an old Detroit diesel for some time.

 

[Longhunter7]

MM!

I live in Northern Illinois and I have not found a need for keeping the oil warm!

It does get below zero here, but I avoid running the Deuce when it gets below 10 degrees!

I would only start the Deuce below 10 degrees in an emergency! It is too hard on 30 year old trucks to run when it gets too cold!

It always starts, even at single digits, because I use a dual 12 volt battery charger that is designed for 24 volt systems! It charges both 12 volt batteries at the same time, and keeps them at a float charge!

If you are interested in the details of the battery charger, let me know!

I think that hot batteries are more important than hot oil! <img src="emoticons/icon_smile_idea.gif" alt="Idea"><img src="speech/icon_speech_yes.gif" border="0">

 

[Dieselsmoke]

Yeah, more than once in Colorado I had batteries freeze up on me. ONce they freeze they usually are done for.
My trucks always started no problems in 10 degree weather in Colorado, nowdays I'm a wimp...I won't even open the door if it's below 40 outside.

 

[Monster Man]

Originally posted by Dieselsmoke

Yeah, more than once in Colorado I had batteries freeze up on me. ONce they freeze they usually are done for.
My trucks always started no problems in 10 degree weather in Colorado, nowdays I'm a wimp...I won't even open the door if it's below 40 outside.

LOL, yup that's me and the motorcycles. I keep them on float chargers, but they're in a garage. The deuce unfortunately will be outdoors. We rarely dip below 15 or so in the winter, so I'll definitely be sure to hook up a charger- LH7, I'd like more info please. I think I may be able to steal the heater off my dad's truck, it's parked now we'll see if it'll help

 

[Longhunter7]

MONSTER MAN!

The charger that I use IS waterproof, and it's ok if your Deuce is parked outside!

The best place to mount it is right behind the assistant drivers seat, which is right above the battery box!

It should be protected enough there!

www.chargetek.com Model CT-500

It has a pair of leads that go to each battery, and can be permanently mounted to the battery terminals!

Worked great all last Winter! <img src="emoticons/icon_smile_cool.gif" alt="Cool">

 

[ironhorsethegeneral]

<img src="emoticons/icon_smile_paw.gif" alt="Paw"> Use an oil that does not thicken up when cold (like synthetic) As far as batteries if they freeze withing -10,40 or whatever they are not fully charged in the beginning. In order for a battery to freeze it has to be at least -1000 or so before it will freeze. When water and acid separates water floats and that is when it freezes. Another thing use a fuel additive that keeps the diesel fuel from gelling. Good luck this winter.<img src="emoticons/icon_smile_paw.gif" alt="Paw">

 

[Rattlehead]

Don't bother with those magnet heaters, they are only 200 watt each. I had 2 of them on my oil pan all day and it didn't do squat to help it out in 10-15 degree weather.

 

[skidder]

live in maine and use my truck for work. I put a cheap antifreeze heater from NAPA on the truck. Only plug it in if I know I will use the truck in the morning. Last winter had some very cold days (-15). My 97' pick-up wouldn't start so I had to use the duece. Started right up even without being plugged In. Between the Antfreeze heater and the winter front, the truck has never let me down.

 

[OPCOM]

On the subject of block heaters, I'm looking for something to keep my standby diesel genset warm if the outdoor temp drops below about 50 degrees. The reasoning is that the 4-cylinder 40KW set will be required to assume up to an 11KW load 30 seconds after starting, for better or worse.

It does have an inline 1KW coolant heater that was used continuously "on" for 10 years and this kept it at 160 degrees!! well the previous user had a computer room and did not care about the cost of power, only cared that the genset would be instantly ready for the 25KW load.

The heater works by being vertically mounted and attached with 5/8" hoses, and the hot coolant rises entering the t-stat housing at the top of the engine, and flows back down through the engine, keeping it warm.

Myself, I see no earthly reason to keep it that hot, burning a KW to do it. I also hear the coolant boil inside the heater, telling me for instance it is too darn big. I attempted to put a thermostat on it, but the boiling issue troubles me, it cannot be good for the coolant. Then the thermostat, a kind used for 1600 watt space heaters, broke. It was a bi-metal snap type, and I used a hose clamp to attach its bracket to the pipe.

I know I can reduce the power of the heater by placing a half wave rectifier (big diode) in series with it. There is a nice steel pipe I can use for a contact-thermostat, so that regardless of outside temp, I could set the thing so that the engine coolant never gets below a certain temperature. I don't know where to find a decent thermostat that would use a physical contact with a pipe to detect the temperature.

The engine is small, it's a 4 liter Perkins normally aspirated diesel; would a magnet-type or other 'stick-on rubber' type for the oil pan help me out there? Or should I heat the coolant, in turn heating the whole block?

 

[rizzo]

I just got a freeze plug heater for my 1008, I have not installed it yet, maybe next week.

 

[TheBuggyman]

On the subject of block heaters, I'm looking for something to keep my standby diesel genset warm if the outdoor temp drops below about 50 degrees. The reasoning is that the 4-cylinder 40KW set will be required to assume up to an 11KW load 30 seconds after starting, for better or worse.

It does have an inline 1KW coolant heater that was used continuously "on" for 10 years and this kept it at 160 degrees!! well the previous user had a computer room and did not care about the cost of power, only cared that the genset would be instantly ready for the 25KW load.

The heater works by being vertically mounted and attached with 5/8" hoses, and the hot coolant rises entering the t-stat housing at the top of the engine, and flows back down through the engine, keeping it warm.

Myself, I see no earthly reason to keep it that hot, burning a KW to do it. I also hear the coolant boil inside the heater, telling me for instance it is too darn big. I attempted to put a thermostat on it, but the boiling issue troubles me, it cannot be good for the coolant. Then the thermostat, a kind used for 1600 watt space heaters, broke. It was a bi-metal snap type, and I used a hose clamp to attach its bracket to the pipe.

I know I can reduce the power of the heater by placing a half wave rectifier (big diode) in series with it. There is a nice steel pipe I can use for a contact-thermostat, so that regardless of outside temp, I could set the thing so that the engine coolant never gets below a certain temperature. I don't know where to find a decent thermostat that would use a physical contact with a pipe to detect the temperature.

The engine is small, it's a 4 liter Perkins normally aspirated diesel; would a magnet-type or other 'stick-on rubber' type for the oil pan help me out there? Or should I heat the coolant, in turn heating the whole block?

At the data center where I work we have nine 2200 HP CAT gensets that are instantly available if needed and we keep the entire water side at 110 to 130 degrees and they work fine. I would heat the water side and keep it that way on a standby set as they come to full speed very quickly. I keep my home unit at about 120 deg and it is in a mechanical room off of the side of my shop with an air louver system. Keep 'em warm and they won't let you down.

 

[houdel]

#1 thing for extreme cold weather starting is warm batteries. When batteries get cold they quickly lose cranking amperage and you can't spin the engine fast enough to create enough compression heat to fire the fuel. #2 is a good working flame heater or ether injection system. Use of 15W-40 motor oil helps also. The antifreeze heater is OK if you can plan far enough in advance to have the engine warmed up when you want to use it. You shouldn't worry too much, these trucks are designed to operate in arctic conditions, properly maintained cold weather starting should not be a problem.

 

[NEIOWA]

#1 is having warm oil; so the starter has an easy time turning the engine over (just like on a warm day in May), and so the oil is circulation to all those important bits as she fires up. #2 is fully charged batteries (which then won't freeze) which can properly spin that starter. #3 is nice warm coolant circulating thru the block keeping it toasty warm.

 

[houdel]

NEIOWA - I just gotta disagree with you. Concern number 1 is WARM, fully charged batteries. If you look at the charts, the available cranking amps for a fully charged battery at 0F is only about 50% of the available cranking amps at 70F. Regardless of the temp of the oil or engine coolant, a set of batteries at 0F is going to have a hard time spinning the engine fast enough to create sufficient compression heat to fire the fuel without a very good working flame heater or ether injection system. If I were seriously worried about cold weather starting my No. 1 addition would be to install a set of battery heaters.

Warm engine oil isn't going to help start the engine any faster either. Chances are the crank, rods, bearings and entrained oil in the bearings are still going to be near ambient temperature, unless you have heated the oil enough to also warm up the block and internal components. Absent that, the entrained oil in the bearings is still going to be at or near ambient temperature and create additional drag on the engine, compounding the effects of cold batteries. Warm oil WILL help in getting adequate oil flow to the engine faster once the engine is started, but is of little help in starting unless the oil is warm enough to heat the 1500 lbs of mostly cast iron that the engine is made of.

Warm coolant does aid engine starting. It heats the heads, cylinders and pistons and to a lesser degree the rods, crank and bearings, so the engine has less cranking drag and requires less additional compression heat to fire the fuel charge.

So my choice for starting aids are:
1. Battery Heaters
2. Coolant Heater
3. Oil heater

Actually, my choice of No. 1 or No.2 can be reversed, depending on what if easiest for you to find. If you can find a good recirculating coolant heater which will bring your engine temp up 20F or so, that should be adequate to start your engine even with cold batteries. A combination of battery heaters and a good recirculating coolant heater should enable your Deuce to start in temperatures colder than you would ever want to drive the Deuce in!

 

[DDoyle]

I have read somewhere criticism of oil heaters. The case being made was that they "cook" the oil - leading to a breakdown of the additives.

DD

 

[steelsoldiers]

I have read somewhere criticism of oil heaters. The case being made was that they "cook" the oil - leading to a breakdown of the additives.

DD

I heard that about the dipstick heaters specifically. My Dodge came equipped with a block mounted coolant heater. I rarely used it unless it is going to be very nippy. Living in SE VA that doesn't happen too much. If I lived in Iowa or North Dakota or some other icy place, I'd splurge for a couple of battery warming mats. Put them on a timer to kick on 3 or 4 hours before you have to leave for work.

I've never had to deal with an always warming situation like an emergency genset. A battery blanket or warming pad might cost you less at the meter each month. Anyone know the difference in draw between a 110v coolant heater and a 110v battery mat ?

 

[ken]

Holy crap i thought lance was back for a minute there. OPCOM, I use a block heater on a 25 year old iszuz diesel that i can't get glow plugs for. 100 deg coolant temp starts it pretty easy. Does it get that cold in dallas?

 

[drivebymashing]

I have a 400 watt coolant heater on my deuce makes a world of difference after 2 hours of being plugged in on a 30 degree day.