Blown Head Gasket

[dabtl]

How do you troubleshoot this to see where the specific location of the failure is? Is it a trial and error type of thing?
Gary, please report back your findings when you get on it. Any technical help is appreciated for the rest of us, in both identifying and troubleshooting and any issues you came across in doing the disassembly/replacement.
And yes, I do realize there is a search that might cover some of this, but I would like to hear it fresh and new while we have a member working the issue so I can follow along.

You can look at all the manuals for assistance, but I found it difficult to find trouble shooting information that did not end with shipping the engine back to the depot for rebuild. This site is probably the best information on what happens and why.

 

[clinto]

How do you troubleshoot this to see where the specific location of the failure is? Is it a trial and error type of thing?
Gary, please report back your findings when you get on it. Any technical help is appreciated for the rest of us, in both identifying and troubleshooting and any issues you came across in doing the disassembly/replacement.
And yes, I do realize there is a search that might cover some of this, but I would like to hear it fresh and new while we have a member working the issue so I can follow along.

One of a couple different ways.

You can use a cooling system pressure tester. This will replace the radiator cap and introduce pressure into the radiator. Depending upon where the system is failing you may see a coolant leak.

More often, you can remove a spark plug or injector and screw a hose into the cylinder. With the valves both shut and the piston at bdc, the air has to go somewhere. If you put the air to it and air comes out the intake, it's a bad intake valve.

If air comes out the exhaust, it's a bad exhaust valve.

If coolant in the radiator bubbles, it's a bad head gasket, cracked head or cracked block.

If pressure comes out at the oil fill area, head gasket it cracks.

Not sure how you'd diagnose a bad oil cooler.

 

[Terexts]

Oil in coolant is a good sign of a oil cooler failure. Oil cooler elements have to be pressure tested to find leaks. Only way to know for sure if it's the cooler or not is to test it.

 

[LowTech]

About that "bubbles in the coolant". With these rad's I have trouble seeing into the rad. Do you have to fill it up until it's full in the neck? And even then would the bubbles come out into the neck? Ive always had some issues w/ the fact that I cant see anything but what's in the neck.

 

[cattlerepairman]

Yes, I have seen the bubbles in one of our fire trucks. Fill rad up so that you can see the surface of the coolant. Depending on how bad the leak is and how badly the rad shakes to start with, there will be more or less visible bubbling.

A more accurate way can be had when you know someone with a CO exhaust gas probe. Have the probe sniff the rad neck with the engine running - if you get readings above ambient, carbon monoxide is coming out from the coolant, which means exhaust gas is leaking into the coolant.

 

[glcaines]

Gary, I wonder if that Ice Age storm front we had here in Ga. had anything to do with it.
I know these machines are designed to withstand a Wisconsin winter, but they have been parked in the South for most of their life, if not in the desert.

This one came from Ft Indiantown Gap, PA.

 

[glcaines]

My engine is a Hercules, 1C according to the dataplate. It also has the TD cast on the block. I'm going to remove the oil cooler first and pressure test it. If it's bad I'll replace it. If the oil cooler checks out OK, I'll replace both head gaskets. Regardless of which head may be leaking if I have to replace one, I'll go ahead and do both. Since I'll already be into the cooling system, I'm replacing all hoses and the thermostart at the same time. I'll keep everyone posted on the progress and what I find out, but I'm going to wait until the weather is warmer to start. I've put a lot of miles on this truck since picking it up from GL at Ft Indiantown Gap. Doesn't even drip oil anywhere. The only maintenance I've done to the truck (besides PM) since I got it 4-1/2 years ago is to swap out the transmission after it shelled teeth after losing 5th gear. The engine has always run very strong and it starts very easily, even in very cold weather. I started it at -5 F. a couple of weeks ago, just to see how it would act. It took two whiffs of ether, but it started easily.

 

[frank8003]

from post #1
"emulsion of coolant and and oil blew out in my face"
How does it go when you depressurize the coolant system?
Does the problem go away?

What is higher pressure when engine is last shut off?
Where did the pressure go if it could find a path?

Vehicle built to be started and run and run and run at 180F°
Specifications are temperature long time as per design

 

[tankie88]

Correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't the multifuel a cast off from MAN in germany?

 

[doghead]

Correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't the multifuel a cast off from MAN in germany?

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...ation-back-from-M-A-N-on-the-Multifuel-Engine

 

[TsgtB]

I'm loosing coolant, and getting a little milkshake residue under the valve cover cap...
It doesn't drip anything only has a slight weep on drivers side front cylinder, but the slobber tube is starting to vent more of what looks like steam...
I've only had it a couple weeks, previous owner said he just replaced the rear head...
not looking forward to this.

 

[clinto]

not looking forward to this.

It's not a bad job, just time consuming. I have done a bunch, here's the first one I did:

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?11295-All-this-for-a-freeze-plug-!

There are a few things that are annoying. The intake manifold nuts can only be removed with an open end wrench. You need to special multifuel wrench for the drivers side cylinder head nuts. The rear head will touch the cowl as you lift it off the studs.

If you had a cheap way to transport your truck to me, I could do it in a weekend.

 

[skinnyR1]

I'm loosing coolant, and getting a little milkshake residue under the valve cover cap...
It doesn't drip anything only has a slight weep on drivers side front cylinder, but the slobber tube is starting to vent more of what looks like steam...
I've only had it a couple weeks, previous owner said he just replaced the rear head...
not looking forward to this.

I wouldn't jump the gun just yet. Milky oil cap is normal if the truck sits during cooling and heating cycles in the weather. Condensation is formed in the block, and if the truck isn't run enough to boil it out, you will get that milky sludge.

How much coolant are you losing? You should be able to tell on the dipstick if there is antifreeze in the oil.

 

[TsgtB]

I'm not showing any change in oil, it still looks good, when I drove it home the first time it was 100 miles, never got over 190.
It sat for a week, I wanted to run it, so I warmed it up, drove about 2 miles and it went to 210.
Let it cool off, put 3 gallons of 50/50 in it, I'm guessing it puked out half a gallon.... drove it a couple more times (less than 20 miles).

A week later, its back up to 210+ after 10 miles and blowing pretty good from the slobber tube. After it was cooled off, I put a gallon of water in it, and never saw it come up the bottom of the radiator neck... not sure how much it consumed, vented, digested, vaporized or where it is going... but it doesn't leak.

 

[m-35tom]

you would be very foolish to do just one head and may end up right back where you are now. do it right and do it once.

 

[TsgtB]

you would be very foolish to do just one head and may end up right back where you are now. do it right and do it once.

I agree totally. I want to do it right and not half @$$ it.

 

[dabtl]

Begin with the easy stuff first. New gaskets for the oil cooler on the filter side of the engine could be the culprit. Easy to do, get the gaskets and o-rings from TNJ Murray and test the cooler interface for cracks. There are only so many ways water gets into the oil. Cracked head, oil cooler,head gasket blown and possibly one or two other spots where oil and water are in close contact.

 

[skinnyR1]

If you have coolant coming out of the slobber tube then you would also see it on the dipstick.
And checking the coolant level on these is not straight forward. Too high and it blows out.
Im still trying to figure out my truck and the correct level.

 

[TsgtB]

Begin with the easy stuff first. New gaskets for the oil cooler on the filter side of the engine could be the culprit. Easy to do, get the gaskets and o-rings from TNJ Murray and test the cooler interface for cracks. There are only so many ways water gets into the oil. Cracked head, oil cooler,head gasket blown and possibly one or two other spots where oil and water are in close contact.

Dabtl, There was "what I believe to be" an oil cooler (part) in the cab, do you know if its any good?

 

[dabtl]

Needs pressure testing. i bought a new one, installed in 2011. It is possible the o-rings or gasket have gone bad. TNJ Murray sells both gaskets and the o-rings for about $30. You always begin with the easy stuff. Eliminate one and move to the next.

If you think you have a cracked head or blown gasket, remove the injectors one at a time and turn over the engine, kill engine pulled out, you can observe if radiator fluid is coming out in a particular cylinder.

When you replace a head or gasket contact me as I have a tool for one or two of the head bolts and the torque calculated. Research will show you need an offset wrench to handle this. there should be pics of this in several posts here.

This is old school stuff but the manuals are not much help. This website is the place for help.