Brush truck water capacity?

[yeager1]

I am looking at building an off-road (i.e. forests) spray truck for tree spraying. I've seen thread in the past about brush-fire trucks, but can't seem to find what I need. Although a 5 ton would certainly hold more water, I think the added curb weight would just lead to traction problems and sinking in soft ground. The truck would have very little road time when full of water since we use transfer pumps for refilling off road. The question is how much water can I haul safely off-road at low speeds before running into capacity problems? I’ve seen several posts of brush trucks busting front axles off-road and want to avoid that, but when spraying the load gets lightened very quickly so I want to have as much as possible when I pull away for the lakes/rivers. Any wild-firefighters have any idea of when you started having problems?
FYI- Would probably add detroits to both rears to help with traction.

Thanks

 

[503m715]

I just bought a 2.5ton brush truck. It had an eleven hundred gallon tank on it. It seemed kinda small. The fire dept. I bought it from has another one with a 1500 gallon tank. Both were used in areas that mostly see large grass field fires.

 

[11Echo]

Seen this truck posted a while back., I think here or on craigslist.

 

[M1075]

Your operating environment is probably the number one factor. I have seen a deuce with 1800 gallons and I have seen a 5 ton with 2500 gallons. Each of those was way overloaded and impacted the operability and longevity of the trucks. My experiences confirm for me that 1200 gallons on a 5 ton is about right. Water is heavy and takes a lot of truck. If you are concerned about sinking, get some super singles. At extreme weights the lockers might not be best.

 

[yeager1]

Not familiar with "beta tanks", what size are they? We currently run 600 gallons in one ton duallys and they due just fine, but too many fillups are needed for large jobs. I am thinking that if I put the skid mounted tank/pump/reel assembly into a deuce (the skid is the size of the whole dually bed), plus one or two more tanks it would fit nicely. I am thinking maybe 1500 total gallons, but don't want to break the front end?

 

[M1075]

Go with a 5 ton and if you operate "safely off-road at low speeds", it will haul all of the water you can get on it. You can overload a deuce really easy.

 

[KRM_Bear]

http://www.roscommonequipmentcenter.com/

This site has a wealth of information on converting military trucks to fire rigs...

 

[50shooter]

I purchased my deuce with a 1,000 gallon water tank. The FD used it for years w/never an issue other than a transfer case issue that was the drivers fault.

 

[sodslinger]

We use a 1,000 gallon baffled tank in our M35, never had a problem in the 5 years we have used it.

 

[bottleworks]

The most I have hauled in the back of my truck was 7 tons. That's on road, up to 45 MPH. The truck was fine, but I wouldn't want to go much past the 7 ton mark on road. So, that would be about equivalent to 1700 Gal of water. Now at low speed and off road? Maybe a tad more?

 

[yeager1]

If you are concerned about sinking, get some super singles.

Ideally on a deuce I'd like dual Michelin 11R20 XLs in the rear, but I haven't seen any for sale in a while, with 14.5R20 up front.
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?t=9462
I think the dual XL have the best combo of traction, size and the redundancy of duals when hauling heavy loads.

I agree the 5 tons are way heavier duty and better overall, but are roughly 10,000lbs more empty. A lot of the forest service guys out here favor the deuce for this reason, I've hard them mention traction issues on hill climbs since you have a lot more weight with about the same traction. But if you break down in a deuce I guess traction doesn't matter...

 

[M1075]

Ideally on a deuce I'd like dual Michelin 11R20 XLs in the rear, but I haven't seen any for sale in a while, with 14.5R20 up front.
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?t=9462
I think the dual XL have the best combo of traction, size and the redundancy of duals when hauling heavy loads.


I agree the 5 tons are way heavier duty and better overall, but are roughly 10,000lbs more empty. A lot of the forest service guys out here favor the deuce for this reason, I've hard them mention traction issues on hill climbs since you have a lot more weight with about the same traction. But if you break down in a deuce I guess traction doesn't matter...

Yeah, that was my truck! As far as I know, I was the first on here to try that tire/wheel combo and also the first to have 46" super singles. My experience has shown that the super singles outperform the duals offroad without question.

Over the last 20 years, I have seen a few deuce axles fail. Heck, I have even been in a 5 ton when we sheared the front axle housing in half. It can be done, believe me! We used deuces when that was all we had, but now we have graduated up to the big boys. Even the 5 tons seem small now.

 

[yeager1]

Yeah, that was my truck!

I know, I remembered you posting the pics so I looked it up for the link. Sweet setup! I'm not really surprised 395's outperform them, you do lose the extra spares and can't just drive on a flat, but get more road speed and bigger lugs offroad. Both beat the heck out of the NDT's. My deuce or 5 ton choice may come down to what I find a good price on in my area; we don't have a ton of used 6x6's out here that people don't want way too much cash for. And even less GL GSA trucks.

 

[M1075]

Well good luck in your search for a truck. Whatever you end up with, just be safe and always be aware of the dynamic load. If you can't find what you need in Colorado, I have some 5 tons and 600 gallon tanks if you decide to go that route.

 

[SEAFIRE]

Our two "brush fire" M35A2's, one has a 1200-gallon poly tank and the other a 500-gallon poly tank.

If we were to do it over again we would probably have gone 200 gallons less on the truck with the 1200-gallon tank. We only used the 500-gallon tank on our 2nd truck as the tank was given to us.

1 Gallon water [US] = 8.345 Pounds

1200-gallon tank
10,014 lbs not counting tank, pump, etc

500-gallon tank
4,174 lbs not counting tank, pump, etc

I've been told that the military specs for a M35A2 cargo truck is 5000 pounds across country or 10,000 pounds over roads, if you go by that then 500-gallons should be the max off road?

One of our sister departments had a M35A2 with a 2000-gallon steel tank, way overloaded and always having drive train problems and getting stuck.

Another local department has a 5-ton with a 1800-gallon steel tank, it seems to get stuck in places our deuces have no problem.

 

[dburt]

SeaFire is spot on, the deuce has a load limit, mine is placarded on the dash. If you have your truck, check the placard on the dash, it will show load limits, center of gravity, etc. Max load is 10,000 for good smooth conditions. I would not go over a 1,000 gallon poly tank, by the time you add your pump, hoses, tools, etc, you will be maxed out! I have friends that ran about 6 deuces all over the west for firefighting. They ran 500 gallon water tanks, plus 200 gallon foam tanks plus all thier gear, tools, pumps etc. They had few problems with drivetrains and brakes.

 

[flighht2k5]

I just bought a 2.5ton brush truck. It had an eleven hundred gallon tank on it. It seemed kinda small. The fire dept. I bought it from has another one with a 1500 gallon tank. Both were used in areas that mostly see large grass field fires.

WOW thats alot of weight for offroad

 

[bottleworks]

WOW thats alot of weight for offroad

That's only 12,517.5 Lbs of water plus the weight of the tank. The Army under rated these trucks. And I'm sure they did that for people like me. Do you really think the stock winch is a 10,000 Lbs winch?

 

[Firefighter294]

I concur with the info SEAFIRE is giving ... do the math.

One other thing to add ...

You paint it red or yellow, put lights and a noise maker on it, but it is still going to be a deuce. Drive it with respect and keep it legal (weight wise) ... cause when the blue hair finally sees you coming in the rearview and jams on the brakes and you flatten her ... the lawyers will have a field day with you, the guy behind the wheel, and who ever put the mods on the vehicle.

Roscommon is a good place to start ...but read their disclaimer.

Be careful out there, I'm not talking about the fire ..it's the lawyers you really have to worry about.

Rick

 

[scottc]

I know a guy locally who plans on putting a 1500 gallon tank on a duece for farm work. He plans on hauling molasses. Off road only. Molasses is heavier than water. I think he is asking for trouble. Should be interesting.