Camo Netting Support Systems

[Artisan]

Can anyone give me the pros and cons of the different Camo netting Support Systems please?


There is;

Aluminum Poles
Plastic (Fiberglass???) Poles
Round top spreaders
and the spreaders where you use I think 3 pieces that look like an Exclamation mark

 

[GUNNUT in Iowa]

Originally my unit had the fiberglass poles. When they started to break and became unusable, we turned them in for the aluminum ones.

When the aluminum ones bent and became unusable, we could not use them. They also made more noise banging against each other, if you threw them in a pile.

We finally determined the best procedure was to not break them - or bend them. No guidance on throwing them in a pile.

We had the three peice "helicopter" type tops. They would break the "wings" on the tops, if you put too much stress on them. Ocassionally, the plastic "nut" holding the "wings" together would break.

We did not have the round ones. They came later. As I understand it, they are used with a net that has smaller "holes".

I have the "old" style nets with the "larger holes" and use the "helicopter" type tops. I also have the fiberglass poles. Since I am the one that actually paid for them, I take care of them and do not break them - or throw them in a pile.

 

[Artisan]

A little first hand experience is most welcomed.

I garner from this that perhaps the Aluminum poles would be more desirable then the plastic poles
and the round tops might be tougher than the helicopter tops.

Thank You

 

[DieselGenAC]

I know jack squat about the military support systems but I like the EMT based canopy frame systems. They are very sturdy at a reasonable price point. The last one I set up was from Canopy Masters. http://www.canopymasters.com/

 

[GUNNUT in Iowa]

A little first hand experience is most welcomed.

I garner from this that perhaps the Aluminum poles would be more desirable then the plastic poles
and the round tops might be tougher than the helicopter tops.

Thank You

The aluminum ones don't break, but they do bend. If this bend is at the socket, you will have difficulty using the pole. I am not certain the round tops will work on the old style nets with the bigger holes. I do know they (the round tops) have a smaller overall diameter than the "helicopter" style.

As to the desirability, I wanted the fiberglass poles with the "helicopter" tops. It took me a little longer to find them. That might be because they are the "older" style. I get the "old" stuff (even if it is only 10-20 years old) before I collect the "new" stuff.

 

[gimpyrobb]

I have no opinion here! I haven't used camo netting enough to know if one is better than another.

 

[emr]

I like the round tops, don't get caught in the net as much .

 

[MWMULES]

round good, paddles bad. The aluminum make great cheater bars, you would think they would bend but they don't, I carry one on each of my MV's.

 

[emmado22]

I have used plenty of camo nets and support systems. Fiberglass poles break at the slightiest breeze. Aluminum bend, but that's very rare. You will bend 1 aluminum pole to breaking 20 fiberglass poles.

Round tops or the battens, all depends on the type of netting. ULCANS uses the round, and LLWCS uses the battens.

 

[sigo]

Roll your cuffs in if they have buttons on them (BDUs) when putting up Camo net.


I've put up tons of Camo net and rarely had a problem with the three piece battens. The only time I recall any issue was when a large net was weighted down with heavy wet snow.


Aluminum poles are superior. In addition to the factors listed above, the ends of the fiberglass poles have a tendency to split, even if slightly crushed. Resulting in fiberglass splinters on the ends.

 

[Valence]

I have used plenty of camo nets and support systems. Fiberglass poles break at the slightiest breeze. Aluminum bend, but that's very rare. You will bend 1 aluminum pole to breaking 20 fiberglass poles.

Round tops or the battens, all depends on the type of netting. ULCANS uses the round, and LLWCS uses the battens.

3-year old thread bump, but I was trying to determine which type of camouflage net I had "ULCANS" vs "LLWCS", and thus, which type of spreaders I should buy for this system (the "helicopter" battens or the round ones). So I hope this is will be of use to a future reader/searcher.

The transport case with velcro and 'D' buckles reads:


SYSTEM NSN 1080-01-266-1827
CAMOUFLAGE SCREENING
SYSTEM - WOODLAND
RADAR SCATTERING
TYPE IV
CASE NSN 1080-01-266-xx91
CASE MFR 49608
CASE CONTRACT NO. DAAK01-87-D-A063
CASE US/LOT NO 11/88
97400 13229E00 8
SYSTEM MFR 53119
SYSTEM CONTRACT NO. DAA501-87-D-A063
SYSTEM US/LOT NO. 10/89



And the greatly damaged TM 5-1080-200-13&P that came with it defines it as "Lightweight Camouflage Screen Systems and Support Systems".


That seems like "LWCSS" to me (vs "LLWCS", but anyway), and inside in section "2-2 ERECTING SCREENS", pages 2-2 and 2-3, it shows the 3-wing spreader batten:


Full TM attached (which I didn't find on the site, and I'm also posting to the TM Upload section).

Though one question, how "well" would the round pole tops work with this net? I assume the poles are the same and either spreader fits the aluminum or fiber glass poles?

 

[M813rc]

You have the LWCS. There should probably be more Ls and Ss in there, but that's what we called it in the Marines.

I've extensively used both types of netting, though mainly the older LWCS.

The LWCS can be a real pain to put up/take down because they hang up on everything! It is good camo, though.
The "helicopter" spreaders (we called them palm trees) go with this net.

The round spreaders with all the spikes go with the newer ULCANS nets, which have a much finer mesh supporting the camo.
My experience with using ULCANS spreader with LWCS netting is that in any wind, they tend to punch right through the net. They can do a lot of damage while doing so. Then the Gunny does a lot of yelling!
The 'palm trees' spread the load of the bigger mesh, so they don't punch through. In really high wind, though, they will break/fold down and go through, but if it gets to that point, you should have already dropped the netting! (If you didn't, again the Gunny does a lot of yelling)

The carrying case was always called a burrito.

Cheers

 

[M813rc]

Here are some pictures of ULCANS netting. You can see the difference between the screen-like inner mesh and the fishing net on the LWCS.

Cheers

 

[Valence]

Thanks M813rc! Thanks for the good laugh too!

I appreciate the visual comparison as well.

Final question, are the aluminum and fiberglass poles interchangeable?

 

[M813rc]

Final question, are the aluminum and fiberglass poles interchangeable?

Yes

Cheers

 

[Guyfang]

First came aluminum poles. We used them in the early 70's. Then, someone decided that fiberglass was cheaper, lighter, easier to make and made less noise. Every unit wound up ordering countless replacement pole systems. And in the beginning, the first fiberglass poles didt mate up with aluminum poles. What a mess.

After a few years, it became apparent that the fiberglass system was not all it was cracked up to be. Way to much breakage. I hated the person who made the decision to go to fiberglass. I would have impaled him on a fiberglass pole if I could. We used truckloads of camouflage systems to hide our HAWK Missile equipment. Then we went back to aluminum. Thank you Lord!!!!! The only way aluminum gets bent, is if you abuse it. Take care of it, and it will last for ever. If the ends wont fit anymore, use a file to take off the burrs. Try that with fiberglass! I have several aluminum poles I use for my bird feeders. I take them down every year. They have been good to me for 30 plus years. Fiberglass would have been tossed away long ago.

 

[M813rc]

.....it became apparent that the fiberglass system was not all it was cracked up to be....

Cheers

 

[Dwnorton1]

We used them in the early 70's. We used truckloads of camouflage systems to hide our HAWK Missile equipment.




Like this, only with net???????

 

[Guyfang]

This looks like Basic HAWK. We went from Basic to Improved in 1977, so it's older than 40 years, at least. What you are looking at is a HAWK M-501 Loader-Transporter getting ready to load, or unload, three MIM-23 Birds onto a M-192 Launcher. There was a WHOLE lot of other pieces of equipment in a firing battery. We were in a TRIAD firing battery, so we had even MORE equipment then a normal unit. The first 4 years in HAWK, we were a Self Propelled, (SP) TRIAD HAWK unit. The beast below, (Wiki link) was our Self Propelled Launcher, (SPL). It is a M-727, (modified M-548 tracked vehicle) Self Propelled Launcher. I believe it weighed 17 tons or there abouts. When we took the governor's off, and I can not remember ever seeing one on a SPL, we could do about 60MPH, at least. It was fun on the autobahn! We had about 40-45 prime movers, with towed loads. That was just system stuff. The ash and trash added even more. Yeah, we had LOTS of camouflage.

The picture above was our site in Bamberg Germany. From the launcher section, showing both an SPL and a normal launcher, (M-192), and a HIPOWER, (AN/MPQ-33/39) radar on top of the berm.

 

[MWMULES]

I keep one aluminum pole on every truck I own, they are super tough. I have added used them as a cheater pipe on a 3' cheater bar with my 250lb hanging or standing to bust a lug loose, leverage on a chain binder, as a roller to push a heavy pallet farther into a truck bed and have yet to bend one.