Can a Deuce to tow a Deuce on a trailer without a CDL ? Yes.

[WTFandoffrd]

KOCH wow you put alot of thinking in that , as far as the deuce rating goes, I have a 99 f350 diesel srw 6spd I think the all together is like 16,000 pounds truck, trailer cargo is that the gvwr? Anyways I have pulled alot more then that, I am pretty nsure the truck is 8,000 lbs so that leaves on 8,000 lbs to play with thats not that much the most I have wieght I have pulled with the truck is about 16,000 lbs not counting the truck so 24,000. My point is I think on most trucks manufacter rating is low balled

 

[rat4spd]

Sure you can pull way more than what the factory rates them for. My father in law gets hay from a farmer that uses a late 90's F250 dually (yes dually). He has a 40' fifthwheel or gooseneck, I can't remember because I'm usually busy unloading the darn things, but anyway, we get 300 small bales on it. That's upwards of 20K just in hay, not to mention the trailer. He's been doing it for years. Legally wrong, but what can I say, it happens.

 

[mckeeranger]

Just because you could, doesn't mean you should

I'm still fairly new here, but I'll play bad guy for a second.

It has been pointed out in many threads, on this forum, that anything you do in public effects all of us.

Let's say your example will pass. So you are now "legal" but still going against the design of the law, and the design of the equipment. When the 17 year old girl putting on makeup and talking on the phone cuts you off on the highway, and you have to stand on the brakes and it causes you to go across lanes and you hit a bus load of kids, you may end the private ownership of retired MVs completely.

Sounds extreme? One Toyota truck hit one bus load of church kids in Northern KY and changed the way school buses are designed, built, bought, and sold throughout the nation. That one accident also changed the way commercial and bus drivers are licensed, also throughout the nation. One crash did all that.

Our government was designed to work slow to prevent extreme, "knee jerk" reactions from having long term effects. Unfortunately, with the internet and cable news networks fueling the fires of public opinion, these reactions are becoming much more common, and they are becoming law.

 

[Heavysteven]

I would not advise this. To many things to go wrong, curves, dips infront of bridges, and traffic all will cause you to wreck. There have been numerous times poeple have pulled out infront my truck and traler fully loaded. I call it the big truck syndrom (got to get infront of the that truck or he will slow me down). Did I say trailer brakes.

Never mind the law, ask your self if it's safe.



Why not have your truck hauled or get a tow bar?

 

[saddamsnightmare]

December 13th, 2009.

Kochevnik:

I would say you might make it with a gooseneck trailer on either a M35 series tractor, but you would be safer with a 5 ton tractor in either case for braking and weight distribution. The deuce might actually make it if you used the correct military drawbar and just towed the second deuce on its own wheels with the air brake system cut in like the 5 tons have gladhands and valves on their front bumpers. In either case your weight calculations are off on the towed deuce. Saddam's Nightmare in the icon annexed weighted
13,480 tare with fuel tank 3/4 full, metal cab roof and bed cover and bows shown, with no BIL tools on board, and this is without winch, with winch you would need to add at least 500 lbs to tare and all of that on the front axle. I can guess her weight has gone up 90 lbs for the air o matic, and probably close to 60-80 lbs for what BIL tools I carry in the tool boxes, plus the weight of the passenger bench seat, which I did not have in the truck on the original weigh in. I might add you could probably pay a hauler to move it for less... just don't get the weenie who did my haul, jeep Cherokee and a deuce on a 3 axle trailer behind a 1-1/2 ton Chevy, and the fool called me enroute and said he had my monster on board and could not do over 45 mph on the levels!!!! He had the dimensions and weight before he loaded her, I guess he was an optimist..... He won't try that one again.
PLUS you'd be over CDL weight even if your towed duece didn't have a winch.....
Just my .02 worth,

Cheers,

Kyle F. McGrogan

ONE Other thought: When you consider you don't need a CDL if you're hauling private equipment, and you have the drawbar and air brake mods like the 5 tons do, consider what your deuce is gonna do if it rains or snows and you have NDT/NDCC's on it.... If you had a trailer that could take the load and not overload the pintle on an M35, you're still gonna have a squirrelly deuce in terms of steering on wet pavements. And all it takes is one good accident to kill it for all of us. I'd pay to have it hauled by a reputable hauler with a gooseneck trailer and tractor truck. Or just cough up and buy a 5 ton military wrecker, then you're good to go.

Cheers,
Kyle F. McGrogan

 

[wvhillbilly]

Simply put...this IS NOT SAFE!!! Reminds me of what the last thing a redneck sez:
HEY YA"LL...WATCH THIS!!!

 

[dmetalmiki]

g

gxe h,rsrtj./kdty/yt.sxrtfm

 

[Jake0147]

Here is what is missed...
First, the CDL is required when the COMBINATION exceeds 26K, not the prime mover.
Second, the way these guys are getting away with this is just as you figured. They will not pull you off the road if you don't exceed the mechanical limit of your machine. They TICKET you for being over your registered weight. If you keep the registered weight under CDL and no individual component is overloaded then you get a ticket for the weight, you drive away as is, and you're not out of class.

If your registered combination weight OR your rated GVWR for the truck and trailer combination exceed 26K, then you need a CDL. Deuces squeak by every day with the data plate rating of curb weight plus 10,000 which is the army's rating of it, but push too hard, you're sitting on a cataloged 12,000 pound steer axle and two 14,000 pound drives. That's 40,000 pounds if they wish to push the issue for lack of the appropriate plackards from the vehicle manufacturer.

Get the CDL to do this, or explore the federal and state rules for the possibility of exemption for personal non commercial use. Barring exemptions based on use, you will not get this combination through a check without making at least one significant infraction.

 

[zyrtecx]

No, not legally...

 

[Josh]

Assuming you have a trailer capable of the weight and are legal to even drive. To off set the tounge weight would be to stack some sand bags in front of the rear axle conection.

 

[BEASTMASTER]

federal dot - any combination vehicle over 26k lds requires class A license, good luck.

 

[jollyroger]

I have had this discussion personally with my friends and authorities. ALL laws are enforceable by LEO's but not supposed to be individually interpereted by the officers. The officers that I know tell me they are most likely going to leave you alone unless you are acting the fool or something with your rig does not look right. If you achieve getting their attention they will start to look at you with a lot of scrutiny. The CDL laws are not at the top of the typical traffic officers list unless they are DOT or a commercial enforcement officer. However you do not want to give any officer the oportunity to give you a second look.

The setup you have described seems to me set's off the rig does not look right flag.

The legal weight limit for any vehicle without a CDL is 26,000 lbs.

The exceptions, there are always exceptions, that I know of are housecars/motorhomes. RV's are not the same as housescars/motorhomes. I know this is a semantical issue but not in the eyes of the law. It is my understanding that a housecar/motrohome can have airbrakes and be operated by a non CDL driver. To qualify as a housecar/motorhome the vehicle has to have a bathroom, a kitchen and a sleeping area that is common with the driver compartment. Then there is some ambiguous language about no more than 40 foot length. My mom has a 38 foot Newell coach that has air brakes and weighs 40,000 lbs. We all don't have CDL's and are legally able to drive the coach.

A 5-ton has a GVW that is greater than 26000lbs. A no can do for non CDL drivers.

All I am saying on your theory is that you may have math on your side but I don't think it will pass the sniff test with the authorities. I would not want to test the loopholes in the laws unless I had nothing better to do and plenty of money to defend myself with.

The theory that I have explored with my friends and authorities that I think holds more weight is why am I confined to the GCVWR of 26000 lbs? Within that why am I limited in hauling with vehicles that have a GCVWR of less than 26000 lbs? Shouldn't the actual weight I am hauling be the limiting factor? Would it not be safer to haul with equipment that is more capable, brakes and motor, than with equipment that is at the limit for the weight I am hauling?

 

[mckeeranger]

The theory that I have explored with my friends and authorities that I think holds more weight is why am I confined to the GCVWR of 26000 lbs? Within that why am I limited in hauling with vehicles that have a GCVWR of less than 26000 lbs? Shouldn't the actual weight I am hauling be the limiting factor? Would it not be safer to haul with equipment that is more capable, brakes and motor, than with equipment that is at the limit for the weight I am hauling?

As traffic and highway speeds have increased, they had to draw a line somewhere, they decided it would be 26,000#. The reason they use the Gross weight instead of actual weight, is potential.

Our M817 weighs 23,725#. I may be using it to haul groceries today (Yeah, that's overkill, but it makes them really easy to unload ) but if I haul very little more, it will go over 26,000#. LEO knows this, and has to assume that because I can, I will. They have no way of knowing how much I'll haul, so they go with the maximum potential load, just to be sure.

And truth be known, they're usually right. Just look at the threads on trying to maximize loads just on this site.

Another thing some people forget; If it's licensed commercial, and has a gross weight potential of over 14,000#, it requires a health certificate even if it doesn't require a CDL. At least it does in KY. I'm guessing it's the same everywhere.

 

[Scarecrow1]

I have to agree with tm america minus all the extra this == that is this, the math is clear and in excess of 26,100 lbs total . Anything over that === CDL

 

[Squirt-Truck]

Well, Just finished the weight and balance for some of our trailers at work. Add this to doing this for hire in the legal system, AND having access to the head of Fed. DOT.
The key here is, as was just posted, it is the Gross Weight RATING, has nothing to do with what the actual load is except for axle weights and tire ratings). The fact is, 26001 pounds combined load RATING is CDL. For example a 2009, F-350 DRW, diesel, (on the scales today) has a GVWR of 13000, add a 15000 trailer, which the truch is certified for, and you have a CDL required rig.
How we handle class A, B, or C, CDL is another entire issue.

 

[BEASTMASTER]

just a reminder....my buddie has towed half a dozen deuces on his 9 ton 4 axel tag trl. behind his heavy duty 2003 f-350, but he will NEVER do it again!!!!!!!he didn't get any tickets but the cops told him you're lucky you DIDN'T kill any body!!!!!!!!!! tow bill $8200.

it might be legal but if it ain't SAFE ......... DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[2deuce]

I bought an 12 ton equipment trailer for my deuce. On my 1st trip with it I stopped at the check station in Washington. I was asked if I was commercial, I told him no and he told me I didn't need to stop. That was at least 5 years ago. I have not stopped since loaded or not.

 

[Squirt-Truck]

Oh, be aware that on the deuce, the LISTED towed load is 12000# (I think for highway). If the DOT guy is haveing a bad day any trailer over 6 ton RATED is also a fine..... Regardless of loaded or not.

 

[donkdonk]

I know this is an old post, but just for informational purposes I wanted to add a couple things to this thread.

While I don't think the setup sounded safe, it was only because of the tongue weight, and not the overall weight or lack of CDL. I don't see why it would be a problem for the deuce to handle if he would have had the correct trailer.

The GVWR of a M275 (Deuce Tractor) is 36k lbs and they have the same brakes/suspension/frame as a regular deuce and I have seen pics where people have that at least doubled and they said it did OK... am I saying that is a wise thing to double the GVWR of your truck? Well no, but everyone knows that these trucks were overbuilt and underrated. I mean the stock deuce has a 5 ton payload rating so you could **** near put the other deuce in the back of the other one and not be way over the rating.

On the CDL the 26k lbs only pertains to Commercial Vehicles and not individual owned/operated vehicles... the Federal statute anyway... your state laws may be different.

From the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration website FAQ's:

Question 6: A driver operates a tractor of exactly 26,000 pounds GVWR, towing a trailer of exactly 10,000 pounds GVWR, for a GCWR of 36,000 pounds. HM and passengers are not involved. Is it a CMV and does the driver need a CDL?

Guidance: No to both questions. Although the vehicle has a GCWR of 36,000 pounds, it is not a CMV under any part of the definition of that term in §383.5, and a CDL is not federally required.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...3.5&guidence=Y

 

[kendelrio]

They said there wouldn't be any math.....