Cant find a part

[lolercaust]

Im looking for the temp senser on the passanger rear of the block, I cant seem to find it in the TM's and iv gone throgh three orders for this part and none of the boxs stores have it. The problem im having is the truck starts like a CHAMP when its cold 1-2.5 revs and its runin like a beast BUT try to start the truck warm/semi hot and ill kill the batteries tryin to start it. tomarrow im gonna diag the card but id like to have all new electrical/sensers in a truck thats mechanicaly cherry.

 

[Recovry4x4]

TM 9-2320-289-20P. Figure 46 Item 2. Switch, cold advance. 14071047. Even the Tms have a search box, took me a minute to find it by searching the word "temperature".

 

[lolercaust]

Yes i found it but thats the wrong part but it is in there as a 2507177, i guess that the year of the truck determins which senser you get the 14071047 i found on another post and comes up as a Duralast SU183 an does'nt fit but thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

 

[Warthog]

The temp switch on the passenger side controls the Cold Advance and High Idle on the injectorr pump. The switch on the drivers side rear head controls the GP relay card.

The high idle switch is listed as the above number 14071047 and crosses to the NAPA number ECH TS7265. My notes show that the GM number has been updated to 10154649 and crosses to the same NAPA number.

The GP switch is listed as 10045847. The electrical connector has been updated. You can get the old style connector switch at Oreillys part #WT5133. Both of these require the bushing to make them fit.

Remember parts change and these numbers are a few years old.

 

[lolercaust]

YEP 10154649 is the part im gonna get it tonight , thanks.

 

[Barrman]

I know this is a day later, but did you test your old one first? The fast idle/cold advance switch only works when the coolant is below 95°. If you are having hot starting problems, this isn't the problem. My trucks haven't had fast idle in the afternoon here in Texas for a few weeks now. They are already "pre-warmed" by the sun.

A hot start problem usually comes down to a fuel delivery issue. I would suggest pulling the return line check valve on the IP and seeing if it is full of little black trash. If so, start saving for an IP rebuild. Lots of threads about this issue too.

 

[lolercaust]

Were would i find this return line check valve? The thing that i keep coming back to is the glow plug control, If i get plugs for even half a sec she fires right up. I understand that this temp switch allso talks to the GP card and if it geting the wrong imputs the GP's wont come on when they really need to. If i shut the truck off it starts right back up but if i wiat to long its not hot enogh to start with out plugs but the card isnt geting the proper imputs to see it does need plugs. Am i wrong? if i am well iv got a new part for the truck. Tomarrow im gonna do the card test to make sure, but ill just replace the card any ways for S&G's.

 

[markg]

look at the top of the pump, black fuel return hose with red clamp. remove the hose, unscrew the fitting, check and clean, look for black particles of internal flex ring. early 84 trucks had bad flex rings from factory. most have already been changed. i have had the same problem you had, changed the ip and solved the problem. pump housing may have to much wear , when hot they expand and dont build enough pressure. thanks. mark

 

[lolercaust]

OK thanks, i just looked at it took me maybe five minutes. Im happy to say that there wasnt a spec of crap in the pump, the glass cheak ball was just as clean and shinny could see through it like a tiny microscope. I looked at the fuel that came out and it as well was clean with nothing in it. I hope its not just wear on the pump housing as the truck is in amazing shape with 26,xxx K on it. I dont have a problem restarting it when i get fuel or if its only been off for a few minutes just when its its been off and cooled slightly. If i was losing presure from heat expansion then i would think it show after its heated up. This past week end i burned half a tank of fuel joy riding with a buddy with no change in preformance or power. I do have the readings for the GP module test....

Wire..................Key..............Spec..................What i got
P/W..................start.............12V......................7.8V
LB.....................run..............relay clicks............relay clicks
DB....................run.............."WIAT".................."WIAT"
Pi/Bl..................run...............12V......................12.1V
Or.....................run...............12V.......................8.8V
Ye.....................off................800 ohms min........222 ohms
Bl......................off................0 ohms.................0.6 ohms
Pi/Bl-LB relay......off................6-10 ohms............15.4 ohms

OK so the relay works but needs to be replaced, i got 1/4 resistence need from the senser. The senser is brand new and is 0.4 ohms less then the original at room temp, so both work fine but im not geting enough resistence IE not 800 ohms but the TM's are half assed at best. What the TM sould say is 800 ohms AT X TEMP not "when cold", cold as in on a sunny summer day or in the arctic "cold" is engine is under operating temp. It needs to say a temp spec or its usless. Some of the other values are low (Or and Pu/Wh) but are still with in operating peramiters (still works). Any one have any feed back on the vast difference in ohms at the senser maybe a temp spec. So far it seems most likely senser or card, iv found plenty of grammatical and spelling screw ups in the TM's so i trust them enough to point me in the right direction. With out a temp spec its a wild guess if its right or not it is a new senser, that matchs the old one near perfect. im at a bit of a loss here

 

[doghead]

Maybe this will help.

 

[markg]

starter turning fast enough? batteries good? when hot and you manually hit the glow plugs for 3 seconds does it start? i still think you have an ip heat soak problem. try pooring a cup of water on your pump. does it start? thanks. mark
where i live its been 100f every day. i run 3 6.2 's and a 6.5t on a regular basis. after they start cold and run for 10 minutes or so they all will start the rest of the day without any assist. one 82, one 87, one 94 6.5, and one military 86. two are light duty(egr) and other 2 are hd.

 

[lolercaust]

starter cranks fine, batteries are 1=12.6 2=12.7 as of yesturday. i havnt tried the manual GP trick how do i do that? If i did that then i would know for sure if its GP system or the IP, iv heard of the cold water trick ill do that the next time she wants to be a pian. So at this point ill drive her tomarow for a bit then try the GP bypass if that does'nt work ill try the water. One of them is bound to work. Thanks Doghead for the graph but i dont think thats the one for me, if im geting 222 ohms the the engine would then be just over 200* per what the graph shows. ill try and find the box for the part and see whats on it, most likly nothing and try and find it some were.

 

[lolercaust]

Well markg i got my answer today and you were right, went out and tried to crank up the truck and i got AKAKAKAK! Tried to jump start it on the Doghead relay (thank you Doghead) to see if its the starter, relay or batteries and she could hardly move the engine. The batteries were holding a surface charge well enough to show good voltage and cold start but had no amps and then they finally died. So i replaced the batteries and she fires up alot better and shes still some what hard to start hot but will do it. Now that I can hot start the truck you can hear the starter cry out in pain like its all bond up and full of athreitis. Im sure mostly due to the heat souked old parts. Monday im going to Brownings and have them rebuild the starter. After that she should be able to start when ever and were ever, though im still mifed about the GP module readings. Like i said i dont trust the TM's to much but the out come was way off as far as the TM is concerned. Ill most likly remove the GP circiut in favor of a good temp guage and a push button to control GP relay. Thanks for the help every one ill make one more post to wrape this up monday afternoon.

 

[markg]

Well markg i got my answer today and you were right, went out and tried to crank up the truck and i got AKAKAKAK! Tried to jump start it on the Doghead relay (thank you Doghead) to see if its the starter, relay or batteries and she could hardly move the engine. The batteries were holding a surface charge well enough to show good voltage and cold start but had no amps and then they finally died. So i replaced the batteries and she fires up alot better and shes still some what hard to start hot but will do it. Now that I can hot start the truck you can hear the starter cry out in pain like its all bond up and full of athreitis. Im sure mostly due to the heat souked old parts. Monday im going to Brownings and have them rebuild the starter. After that she should be able to start when ever and were ever, though im still mifed about the GP module readings. Like i said i dont trust the TM's to much but the out come was way off as far as the TM is concerned. Ill most likly remove the GP circiut in favor of a good temp guage and a push button to control GP relay. Thanks for the help every one ill make one more post to wrape this up monday afternoon.

glad you got it worked out. i picked up an 1009 thursday from gsa that probably belonged to a volunteer fd . no telling how long it had been sitting. i put fresh batteries in, cranked the engine over and she was running before i could think about waiting for the glow plugs to cycle. come to find out it had a manual push button to cycle the plugs and i had not even touched it. with our 100plus degree heat we dont even need glow plugs. thanks. mark

 

[lolercaust]

Well i droped the starter off at a local shop and i had it back a few hours laters. They told me it was a wrecked, winedings, brush's and bearings were all shot. It even had a cracked drive casing. He could it a "basket case" of a job. I havnt had a chance to put it in yet i was reruning the soliniod wire so its not geting baked by the engine and manifold. Im very sure the hot start issue is gone for a good long while. As for the heat i still use plugs, even today it peaked at 98* and the thermometer read 108* in direct sun light with 68% humidity. Some thing about living in a swamp next to the ocean does that but thanks agian for the help.

 

[markg]

let us know how it turns out. how much was the starter repair? thanks. mark

 

[lolercaust]

the starter rebuild was i think 130$ which is just slightly cheaper then a new one, and id get it back that day. But i am happy to say it worked the truck starts every time all the time now.