Can't mod the driver

[nchittendon]

So I took my deuce to her first mud bogs. Actually, her first off road....anything.

Also, my first off road.

I used to drive an ATV around, and quite effectively, but this is a totally different animal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35GIFOY1ohg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47DH8yP6D6k

So in the first video, I follow a guy into the mud. Thinking, he's a chevy 1/2....pretty much stock. If he can, I can. Well, then he gets stuck. So I have to break off the beaten path. That's when I learned why everyone was steering clear of that path. About a 3 foot hole. Truck went in like a submarine.

I did have the front locked in. But I did put it in low gear, which I'm told I shouldn't have??

Also, I was doomed from the start because I had the stock NDT's and I left them at normal PSI.

Short of getting new tires, are there any pointed you all can help me with when it comes to off road driving?? Help me to mod ME!

 

[tim292stro]

Truck ain't a boggin' Jeep - heavy trucks with small footprint tires will put a lot of PSI on the ground in small patches, Soft or sandy soil should be avoided, and if you can't don't make hard turns but carry speed into your approach. On softer than hard gravel, lock in your front, and lock the diffs - more of that power to more tire patch, you don't have to worry about binding up the drive-train, the soft dirt will give first. That first video, you didn't have nearly enough speed - and to be honest, from here in the peanut gallery it's probably a good thing. The way that truck to your left sank and stopped should have been a sign: "BRAKES!!!"

There is no end to the value of getting out of the truck and actually looking at and feeling the approach you're about to travel. This is also in the training guides I've read for these trucks (lots of "Get out and look!!"). Next time you run into and obstacle, think "if I get stuck and break something trying to get out, how much is this going to cost to get fixed? Can a tow truck even get to where I am? If I'm stranded here do I have enough supplies to survive? If I get hurt in a rollover our trying to winch out is there anyone who is capable of and equipped to render aid to me?"

This may all seem far fetched to the uninitiated, but it is meant to serve to get you in the right frame of mind for driving one of these, and some of those concepts are based in actual real world incidents. You're lucky people were around to help, you didn't break your truck, didn't get hurt (or killed). A little pride damage was all , and you learned a physical limit of your truck. It's posts like these though that remind me of a story out of Germany where a Deuce was being driven at an event by an inexperienced driver (read "tourist") with a truck-load of random people in the bed, and the vehicle owner standing on the fuel tank steps outside the cab. The driver hit an obstacle on an uphill move and lost control of the vehicle... well you can probably imagine where this went, worst case came true.

As you are learning your truck, I'd recommend not being egged on by guys in pickup trucks used to muddin' or boggin', and definitely without the crowd (none of "this hold my beer and watch this!" stuff). Find a reputable local 4x4 club and get one of the more experienced guys to sit in the passenger seat and/or spot you on the radio. Make sure you have recovery options, and take your time. As slow as possible and as fast as necessary is the name of the game. Too fast, and you break stuff. Too slow, and you get stuck. Plan, plan, plan.

 

[Jeepsinker]

The best thing you can learn with a deuce is to JUST STAY OUT of the MUD. Unless you just like tearing up parts and having to work on your truck all the time.

 

[cattlerepairman]

The best thing you can learn with a deuce is to JUST STAY OUT of the MUD. Unless you just like tearing up parts and having to work on your truck all the time.

Amen to that. I cringe when people brag how much punishment and abuse these trucks can take, or see Deuces submerged in mud and water. What could possibly keep a Deuce healthier than milky gunk in the drive train and hubs?
It is a great way to learn about the difference between having the hulk towed to the motorpool to get fixed at taxpayers' expense versus getting your own knuckles bloody , your back aching and slimming down your own wallet to get the truck back into shape.

But, hey, where else would some of the "drove it only off road in the summer; ran when parked" vehicle for sale ads come from?

To each his own. My truck worked hard all its life; it is now retired and only forages on dry off road trails, once in a while.

 

[TMNT]

From the looks of that mud and considering that you were dragging the front axle on the ground, you were doomed in that mud hole anyway you cut it. Front axle engaged, low range and 2nd gear would have gotten further, but you would have just been stuck that much deeper.

The deuce can do well off-road for a truck it's size, but it isn't invincible. And, as noted, mud and water cause an awful lot of maintenance afterwards. I have been in the soup with my truck to learn what it would and what it wouldn't do. After expending the blood, sweat and dollars required to clean it up, repack the bearings, clean and adjust the brakes, drain, flush and re-fill the transmission, transfer case and axles, I don't do deep mud or water if I can avoid it. It's nice to know that it can do it if required, but only if there is no choice.

 

[wreckerman893]

With rare exceptions military vehicles travel in groups so they can recover each other. They are built to go off road but that is not their primary function. Anytime we went to the field we always sent an Advance Party and Quartering Party to look for the path of least resistance and a good place to make camp. My M927 seldom gets off the pavement because I remember what a PITA it was to wash all the gunk out of tight places even with a fire hose.

 

[nchittendon]

A big roger to all of that.

All in all, it was my own fault. Part of my sales pitch to my wife to get the truck was the point that these things could go anywhere. Having opened my big mouth, I was then roped in to taking my 7yo to the mud bogs. Without having any real trails to ride around here, it was the first and only chance to get her off road.

In my own defense, I did state that I would not go in the pits unless there was something a lot bigger there to pull me out. Once we got there and I saw the big dualled up tractor, I decided to take her for a stroll. I knew speed would break her if I hit something I wasn't supposed to, so slow and steady was the game plan. Unfortunately that big **** hole ate her up good, and put an end to the fun not even 5 minutes in.

But, I think it's lesson learned. Big heavy truck with nothing to grip on is only going to sink like a rock. That, and we're still cleaning mud out of her.

 

[73m819]

You were lucky it only was a deuce, just think what it would be like if you one of those "it is made to go anywhere" guys with a 36,00lb wrecker, in that case learn to speak Chinese so you can negotiate on the recovery cost.

 

[m1010plowboy]

Also, my first off road.

Can't offer muddin' tips but I take off my hat to you and anyone that sticks them in the mud.
A toast.

When you win and drive all over the place and nothing stops your truck.....well my jaw just hurts thinking about how hard we laughed. When you bury it and have a safe recovery, expenses and problems expected, same feeling, same smile, same rush. All that matters is we come home safe.

The damage, cleaning, tow bill, learning curve......every truck enthusiast might need go through that adventure, the rest just wish they could.

I don't hit the mud much so that makes me appreciate what you did, even more.....Thank you.

We make the best videos! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZqvDw_vYDQ

 

[EMD567]

I thought I was cool when I took my M814 into the woods. Other then amazing folks by missing all the trees with that long honker, I am still paying the price for that stupid little excursion.

Now, the most dirt the M814 sees is a huge field at the Haspin and Ga rallies.

 

[tim292stro]

Learn Ground Pressure:

An average person exerts roughly 8-psi on the ground when standing still (two feet down). An M35 weighs roughly 14,000lbs, and with 10 tire patches on the ground (roughly assume 1-square-foot per patch), with exert in the neighborhood of 10-psi. If you get out of your truck, walk down the path you plan to travel (both tire tracks), and any one foot sinks in the dirt while walking (takes you to about 16psi per foot) - I'd look for another way.


Learn Center of Gravity and Roll-over angle:

This has to do with your route slope angles. Side-to-side your vehicle is narrower than it is front-to-back, so it's more dangerous to drive on a side slope than it is to take a hill head on. If you picture facing the front of the truck placing two orange vertical lines drawn from the ground to twice the height of your vehicle on each side, and a line from the ground to twice the height of your vehicle in the center of the truck - keep the outer lines upright and move the red line with the truck lean. If the red line from the center of the truck touches the orange lines on either side of the truck - you're out of what I would consider a comfort zone. If your center of gravity (COG) is not centered left-to-right, move the red line from the center of the truck to the center of the COG. You see that you can lean away from the side with the COG more than you can lean to the side with the COG before those red/orange lines touch. the higher your COG, the taller your lines need to be (and less side-to-side lean is allowed for safety as a result). This should give you a rough idea as to the importance of loading your cargo correctly, especially if you expect bad or no roads. This picture is an example of what I mean:



Also the closer you are to the orange lines with the red line, if you hits bumps at speed you might impart enough momentum into the suspension to kick you over, so try not to hit things on a side slope at speed. You want to "know" what each bump is going to do to your truck, speed gives you less time to plan for it.

Side roll-overs are deadly for this type of truck - the cab is not usually strong enough to support the weight of the truck (unless you added a Roll-Over-Protective-Structure or "ROPS"). So keep conservative, slow, and plan the bejesis out of your route and you'll do fine.

And if you've never driven off road and haven't spent much time thinking about it there are tons of videos on YoTube with tips:

 

[tim292stro]

 

[tim292stro]

 

[rmgill]

Going off roading with more experienced folks is a good idea. Go gently and carefully and learn the capabilities.


Also, running these big trucks full speed into thick mud can break your front suspension. Big tires will increase this likelihood.

 

[rustystud]

When I was young I used to offroad all the time with my Scout. Great times ! Now that I'm older (OLD ! ) I don't do that anymore because 1: I cannot afford all the repair bills 2: It is too hard on me to try and get the rig unstuck 3: I don't like to spend days cleaning out my rig, and 4: after the Marines getting a M60A1 tank unstuck got all the Offroad Joy sucked right out of me ! True it is nice knowing the abilities of your vehicle, but after you learn it I feel there is no need to keep learning it !

 

[m1010plowboy]

Mod the Driver!

This could go in the 5 ton forum but it's more about moddin' the driver so we'll put it here.

After 4 hours of flawless hill climbing and trail rides this M931 was challenged to a tug o war against a 1600hp mudder.

We talked about staying on the brake and throttle until the 8000lb mudder broke loose then hitting the throttle on the heavier M931.

Seono11 and I both learned a ton today running with some professional off-roaders and I feel modded.......because it worked......mostly. I'd call it a win for the M931....then payback!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGHxNGCPEYE&feature=youtu.be

.........then we wanted to be sure all the comments about not driving in deep mud or water were also true north of the border.


Goose tried a rescue with about 75' of spring sling and a few wee clevis's's but the 5-ton shall bathe in the bottomless swamps of Alberta until another day.


To give Sean credit, a girl made him do it! I read this thread and drove Goose home instead of driving in deep mud.

 

[Mike929]

FYI, Your video link is marked private, so we can not access on this page or through youtube.

 

[cattlerepairman]

Nice use of the Cdn M135 as a recovery vehicle!

As far as side slopes are concerned, this thread might be useful: http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?114919-M35A2-wo-w-maximum-safe-side-drive-angle

 

[Karl kostman]

great story on your Deuce, the truck will surprise you on this things they can climb both loaded and not but you learned of the biggest weak spot just about ALL of these trucks share, and that is weight! Your Deuce has over 6,000 pounds on the front axle alone and skinny tires with lousy tread on them on top of that, also remember duals are not your friend in mud or snow, they cause you to just have to remove more material when you get stuck! Congrats on trying the mud it sounds like it was a pretty darned inexpensive class in the abilities of your truck. WE all seem to remember better when something like this happens! Good luck with the Deuce, great truck in way more ways than not!
KK

 

[m1010plowboy]

FYI, Your video link is marked private, so we can not access on this page or through youtube.

I'm sorry about that, too fast post...too slow publish. I don't think anyone wants to miss that video. Trying to get links to the dozen other vids that the kids had out so we can get a few angles.

M931 against 1600hp....... who already knew what was going to happen?