• Steel Soldiers now has a few new forums, read more about it at: New Munitions Forums!

  • Microsoft MSN, Live, Hotmail, Outlook email users may not be receiving emails. We are working to resolve this issue. Please add support@steelsoldiers.com to your trusted contacts.

Caterpillar 3126B oil cooler problems

Keith Knight

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
961
1,818
93
Location
Wauchula, FL
3126B oil cooler warped, bad gasket, both…..lots to talk about.
In preparation I purchased all the gaskets and o-rings from caterpillar here are all the drawings and part numbers you’ll need to do the job. Also grabbed a can a CAT paint. IMG_3887.jpeg
I ended up not using item 1 or 8 in the picture above. But cheap enough to have on hand if needed.
IMG_3845.jpeg
IMG_3844.jpegIMG_3846.jpeg
 

GeneralDisorder

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
2,014
5,170
113
Location
Portland, OR
How did you end up getting the cooler flat?

Pics of the gasket failure? Between the clean/dirty halves of the cooler?

BTW - this is often overlooked on the 3126B since it's not covered in the NHTSA docs on this this subject. The docs only reference C7 and C9 engines because the docs are from 2016 and I guess they forgot that the 3126B was the original designation for the first gen C7 and essentially suffers from the same problems but probably at a higher overall failure rate due to age and being the less developed earlier iteration in the engineering of the design. See the docs and note that essentially all of this applies to the 3126B as well:


Incidentally - I don't have any reason to believe this doesn't also affect 3116's - they just suffer through contaminated oil better being they have no HEUI pump. I'm sure it's still just as prevalent of an issue, possibly more so being they are older and it's not on anyone's radar. The oil cooler from what I can tell looking at pictures is essentially the same.
 
Last edited:

Keith Knight

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
961
1,818
93
Location
Wauchula, FL
Be sure to click on the photo links, not sure why it’s doing that I have a new phone and haven’t figured it out yet.

After removing the AC compressor, winch disconnect, alternator, and turbo assembly. You finally gain access to the filter housing that has the oil cooler behind it. Pay attention to bolt lengths I had 3 different lengths of M8 bolts holding the filter housing on.
IMG_3877 Medium.jpeg
View attachment 932323
After getting the cooler out and the gasket removed, cleaned it up and yes it was not flat. Putting a straight Starrett 12” straight edge ruler left to right it was touching on both ends with a gap in the middle. I was completely ready to do whatever necessary to machine it sand it or whatever to make it flat. But before I jumped into anything I decided to investigate every aspect and consider all alternatives. The original gasket 7E9817 was carefully removed in various sections and measured. Around the perimeter it was pretty consistent at .041 - .042, in the middle where you would suspect the problem to be it measured .043 - .044. Also noted the gasket was stuck very well to the aluminum filter housing pretty much every where mainly because that side of the gasket has some sort of red adhesive strips on it. No signs of oil passing through any of the gasket areas in question. So what’s going on? The new gasket is made of a sandwiched piece of metal with thin gasket material on both sides and raised channels in the matting areas. It appears the gasket is designed to work on two different filter housings because in the wider areas have of the gasket doesn’t come in contact with the filter housing.

Back to the warp problem! If I machine one surface of the oil cooler it’s going to be flat on one side and still warped on the other side making the thickness thinner on the ends and thicker in the middle. Which can cause other problems. If you do it this way now you have a flat engine block, a flat spacer the a non flat matting surface then a flat matting surface to the filter housings. What going to happen when you tighten all the perimeter bolts something has to bend and flex. The new gasket was only .010 in the flat area and .020 in the raised channel area.
IMG_3865.jpeg
I did want to create another problem so I needed to do some more investigating. Cleaned all the matting surfaces and measured everything. The block is flat. The space is flat and same thickness throughout. The plate on the oil cooler is not flat but has the same thickness throughout measuring .2198 - .2200. Next how can I test to see how flexible the oil cooler plate is?

IMG_3882 Medium.jpeg
I put it in the vise on my mill with a 3” x 3/8” flat bar aluminum on each side closed the vise until it just barely came contact with the cooler plate still showing its warped I checked with feeler gages and it was .010” out. To my surprise it took very little effort tightening the vise and the cooler plate flattened out easily. Just how easy did it again with a digital torque wrench and it only took 10 flbs to get it to flatten out. So the perimeter bolts can easily manage that but what about the areas in question I outlined them out with red markings and with the vise just tight enough to make it flat and only on one side. I took a 6” straight edge and put it across those areas. IMG_3878.jpeg
And the result is, it’s flat.

A long story short after all this I decided not to machine or modify the cooler plate and believe the original thicker gasket design could be the bigger problem and that the new gasket design is the solution. One of my biggest decision factor was if I machined the cooler plate most likely it would force the uneven surface to the cast aluminum filter housing which could potentially cause it to crack or cause other leaks in different areas.

Fingers crossed hopefully I made the right
decision.

After painting and reassembly.IMG_3872 Medium.jpeg

IMG_3875 Medium.jpeg
IMG_3883 Medium.jpeg
 
Last edited:

GeneralDisorder

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
2,014
5,170
113
Location
Portland, OR
Interesting findings!

I'm concerned that CAT doesn't seem to agree in the NHTSA documents I linked to above. It clearly shows checking with a straightedge and if light is visible then the implied conclusion is "bad".

Additionally when we had them decked in both cases it was very obvious post-machining that they were not just concave but also warped and not in a uniform way. There were two VERY low spots on the edges that even after taking off 0.020" - 0.025" of material were still not touched by the mill....


1000005528.jpg

1000005527.jpg

I'm not personally concerned that the filter housing is going to be damaged by pulling it down a few thou - there's a stack of three gaskets under all the pieces that's going to take up a lot of that concern.

Also none of that testing - ours, or yours - was done with thermal expansion considered. The thermal coefficient of expansion is different between the iron block and cooler than is it for the aluminum filter housing.

In the recent case of John's truck - the original cooler to housing gasket was paper and the center segments pointed out in the NHTSA doc were not well bonded to the surface like the outer edges were - they were easily removed while the gasket on the circumference had to be ground off with a roloc disc.

..... You did grab it and flatten it, but just on one edge. What happens when you bolt the whole thing down all the way around? I'm not convinced it wouldn't go concave in the middle like a satellite dish.
 
Last edited:

Keith Knight

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
961
1,818
93
Location
Wauchula, FL
I’m going to assume there are many flat to really bad warped. The fact that my gasket was still very compressed and stuck to the housing. I going to assume again that I’m on the spectrum that the gasket can take up the difference.

I’m sure are on plenty on the other end of the spectrum and the gasket cannot compensate. The problem was in the manufacturing of the cooler. It should have been made with a thicker plate that would resist the welding process of welding the cooler to the plate. Any time you weld something to a thin material it’s going to warp.
 

Lostchain

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
284
586
93
Location
Portland, OR
This is an awesome write up! Very thourough. One question though. In the beginning of the post you mention that you had a bad gasket, but later you mention that there were no signs of gasket failure or leakage between the filtered and unfiltered sections. Why do you say the gasket is bad? Sorry if I missed it.
 

GeneralDisorder

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
2,014
5,170
113
Location
Portland, OR
Ah yes - obviously there is going to be a spectrum of warpage to coolers. Which could also explain why you have so many miles on your truck *without* having experienced a HEUI pump issue, and necessarily both of the trucks that I've been party to pulling apart DID have HEUI pump problems - rather early in terms of mileage. Thus it could simply be that those trucks had more severely warped coolers and HEUI pump damage was one result that led us to taking them apart and finding that potential aggravating factor. Had they not experienced the HEUI failure they would, in all probability, not have had the cooler removed for us to find the warpage. Assuming that is one of the main causes anyhow.

I think it's worth taking it apart to know, and if nothing else they did radically change the gasket design for the better. Now being a metal gasket instead of the original thick compressed paper it can't really come apart and allow an enormous leak path by shifting under the cooler.
 

MatthewWBailey

Thanks for this site. My truck runs great now!
Steel Soldiers Supporter
815
1,489
93
Location
Mesa Colorado
Back to the warp problem! If I machine one surface of the oil cooler it’s going to be flat on one side and still warped on the other side making the thickness thinner on the ends and thicker in the middle
Since you asked for comments lol! Mine was high in the middle, so the decking removed material from the middle. Given the overall thickness and number of bolts, pressing the whole assembly into the block surface, I don't see how the decking could ever cause the AL housing to crack.

My comment is that the problem warpage is caused by engine heat applied to a piece of metal that has clearly not been heat treated to relieve stresses, or is just a low quality steel. So, cold bending it back straight is going to introduce more stresses unless done at temperature, and those stresses will manifest when the engine heats up, which was the original problem. The only Question is whether the original warpage stopped at 0.020 or continues over time to another greater value (only stopped by the bolts), based on the stresses inherent in the flat stock of that plate. Once it's warped and stops warping, you're then decking a semi-heat treated piece of flat stock with less warpage potential. I like the newer gasket but not sure that's a cure all for the warpage. I guess I'm not a fan of cold bending it back to flat, without heating it.
 

Keith Knight

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
961
1,818
93
Location
Wauchula, FL
This is an awesome write up! Very thourough. One question though. In the beginning of the post you mention that you had a bad gasket, but later you mention that there were no signs of gasket failure or leakage between the filtered and unfiltered sections. Why do you say the gasket is bad? Sorry if I missed it.
I don’t see where I said a bad gasket.
 

Keith Knight

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
961
1,818
93
Location
Wauchula, FL
Since you asked for comments lol! Mine was high in the middle, so the decking removed material from the middle. Given the overall thickness and number of bolts, pressing the whole assembly into the block surface, I don't see how the decking could ever cause the AL housing to crack.

My comment is that the problem warpage is caused by engine heat applied to a piece of metal that has clearly not been heat treated to relieve stresses, or is just a low quality steel. So, cold bending it back straight is going to introduce more stresses unless done at temperature, and those stresses will manifest when the engine heats up, which was the original problem. The only Question is whether the original warpage stopped at 0.020 or continues over time to another greater value (only stopped by the bolts), based on the stresses inherent in the flat stock of that plate. Once it's warped and stops warping, you're then decking a semi-heat treated piece of flat stock with less warpage potential. I like the newer gasket but not sure that's a cure all for the warpage. I guess I'm not a fan of cold bending it back to flat, without heating it.
Valid points. Hard to fully know what that thin piece of steel on the cooler will do after fully bolted down and heated up. 35 years as a machinist turned engineer I’ve seen metals do the most unpredictable things once welded machined then heated again. That’s why when it truly matters it’s heat treated then final grind to tolerance.

Mine only having a .010 gap in the center and having the old gasket bonded very well. I’m praying I made the right decision.
Also installing the high pressure oil filter between the HEUI pump and the block.
 

Keith Knight

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
961
1,818
93
Location
Wauchula, FL
Something else worth mentioning, I believe you can only purchase remanufactured oil coolers from cat. Which would be a gamble. It’s not like you can purchase a new improved version.
 

hike

—realizing each day
Steel Soldiers Supporter
529
835
93
Location
Texas Hill Country
I don’t see where I said a bad gasket.
3126B oil cooler warped, bad gasket, both…..lots to talk about.
In preparation I purchased all the gaskets and o-rings from caterpillar here are all the drawings and part numbers you’ll need to do the job. Also grabbed a can...
[emphasis added]

Perhaps you meant your opening sentence as a question? with "lots to talk about"
 
Last edited:

MatthewWBailey

Thanks for this site. My truck runs great now!
Steel Soldiers Supporter
815
1,489
93
Location
Mesa Colorado
Valid points. Hard to fully know what that thin piece of steel on the cooler will do after fully bolted down and heated up. 35 years as a machinist turned engineer I’ve seen metals do the most unpredictable things once welded machined then heated again. That’s why when it truly matters it’s heat treated then final grind to tolerance.

Mine only having a .010 gap in the center and having the old gasket bonded very well. I’m praying I made the right decision.
Also installing the high pressure oil filter between the HEUI pump and the block.
Well the IFS filter is the real protection IMO, even thou I've not bought one yet. I'm Saving up lol. 0.010 isn't huge and that new gasket is quite large compared to the old one. I'll bet these plates all exhibit different rates of warpage too. IDK the business model employed to manufacture these but my bet is the cooler was attached after the plate was heat treated and then not heat treated again. How many busses, RV's and MTVs did this engine go into, 300,000? I'm just guessing on that number but 1 saved manufacturing step saves $M and increases Exec bonus' a few %'s. Actuarial factors.

In the end it's not exactly rocket science to make a 3/8" plate that is +/-0.0025" flat and stress relieved to 1500F with no warpage in service.
 

Keith Knight

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
961
1,818
93
Location
Wauchula, FL
My goal on this thread was to share the part numbers after others help me get them and 6 hours of searching the web.
And share my findings in the hopes it helps the next person who may want to do this job.
Oh by the way not counting a new oil filter or new oil the total cost from Caterpillar was only $110.00 plus tax. I had a nice salesmen and he gave me the CAT spray paint for free.
 

aw113sgte

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
629
939
93
Location
La Crosse, WI
My goal on this thread was to share the part numbers after others help me get them and 6 hours of searching the web.
And share my findings in the hopes it helps the next person who may want to do this job.
Oh by the way not counting a new oil filter or new oil the total cost from Caterpillar was only $110.00 plus tax. I had a nice salesmen and he gave me the CAT spray paint for free.
My bill was $165 but I added in new nuts, drain hose, etc. the "kit" was about $65....if it has everything I need.
 

Keith Knight

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
961
1,818
93
Location
Wauchula, FL
The kit doesn’t have everything for our motor. That kit is for a motor without the spacer so it’s lacking one gasket and 2 orings. Plus I doesn’t have any of the orings or gaskets for removing the turbo.
 
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website like our supporting vendors. Their ads help keep Steel Soldiers going. Please consider disabling your ad blockers for the site. Thanks!

I've Disabled AdBlock
No Thanks