Chelsea PTO (Take-Off) for my M1088

[Mullaney]

The thing that I was most concerned about was getting the winch and frame pulleys. Got those. Removed them from the frame and have started working to clean and straighten and grease the rollers. In a cardboard box, I found the Chelsea PTO that was removed from the transmission. Nice & Red and the gear side looked really nice. The bolts were in the box too - so I was pretty excited.

Unfortunately, today when I pulled it out to clean it up, I found that the shaft side has a broken housing. I guess I am soliciting opinions... In theory that piece of iron - if I can find it should be cheaper than buying a new PTO. What I have has the electrical connections for an LMTV.




Unfortunately, no pump came with my new toys but I figure that can be found.

I have managed to get the tank mounted where it belongs. Need to build or find a stone shield so the front tire doesn't sling a rock up and drain 27 gallons of hydraulic fluid on the highway. (the wet is rain)

 

[chucky]

Have you found a picture of a correct pto to see what your missing in that cast break?

 

[tobyS]

Is this a 6 bolt pto that attaches to an Allison like a 939 series? I have a couple flange and shaft kits for direct mount pump with the 6 bolt style, so different than driveshaft style, but contains that part .....I think. Have you taken it all apart yet?

See the red part. While that is my Allison 1545 for my deuce, that pto is same as the ones (tranny) on most 939 series.

Okay....the bearing is way different ....sorry.

 

[Awesomeness]

Have you found a picture of a correct pto to see what your missing in that cast break?

There should be exploded views of all this stuff, complete with original part numbers, in the -24 manual.

 

[simp5782]

Is this a 6 bolt pto that attaches to an Allison like a 939 series? I have a couple flange and shaft kits for direct mount pump with the 6 bolt style, so different than driveshaft style, but contains that part .....I think. Have you taken it all apart yet?

See the red part. While that is my Allison 1545 for my deuce, that pto is same as the ones (tranny) on most 939 series.

Okay....the bearing is way different ....sorry.

It's different between those and the MD series

 

[simp5782]

Tim. I would go with a Muncie. Air shift. Eliminate the truck from control of the pto. It also does not have the clutch setup like the parker unit that uses fluid to engage. Those units tend to be noisy.

 

[chucky]

Off subject a little but im only familiar with pto's on manual transmissions like 13 or 15 spd where you had to clutch then pull out on what seemed to be cable device to engage pto or the steel sticks like dump trucks used to have my question is what engages pto on an automatic trans ?

 

[Ronmar]

Off subject a little but im only familiar with pto's on manual transmissions like 13 or 15 spd where you had to clutch then pull out on what seemed to be cable device to engage pto or the steel sticks like dump trucks used to have my question is what engages pto on an automatic trans ?

It uses an electric solenoid valve on the PTO housing to send pressurized oil to a clutch assembly, which couples pump to the rotating takeoff gear...

 

[tobyS]

Chucky.... its a cable.....if you are referring to a 939 series. But the one above in my photo is on the A3 Allison 1545. My photo shows the arm on the top of the pto to engage the gears. There is an air shift available too. The direct mount pump will not fit a 939....too close to frame. But it will fit my deuce. I think there are 77 teeth on the 5 ton and 55 on the A3's Allison.....at least if it were made for military. Not all commercial 545 has the pto drive ring, some do.

You engage the pto with it in gear and stopped or near stopped, not neutral.

 

[Mullaney]

Tim. I would go with a Muncie. Air shift. Eliminate the truck from control of the pto. It also does not have the clutch setup like the parker unit that uses fluid to engage. Those units tend to be noisy.

Thanks Wes!

I believe I found another post somewhere on the site that mentioned a Muncie PTO. May have been one of your posts . I also need to figure out what kind of pump I want to drive with it. Winch is going to be it's primary job - but with hydraulics on the truck - I am going to see about installing a siamese hose reel to drive h-powered tools.

 

[Mullaney]

Have you found a picture of a correct pto to see what your missing in that cast break?

Hi Chucky,

No, Nothing yet. This one came of a M1078 with an Allison transmission. I ASSuMEd that it was the right PTO assembly only because I got it directly off the truck. I even got the 12 point bolts that attach it to the transmission so I was pretty excited until I found the cracked cast iron.

I believe that Awesomeness mentioned that I should be able to find an exploded view in the -24 TM. Wasn't really sure that I would be able to buy just that "broken part" either which was why I started the thread. I haven't had a lot of luck finding what I call "assembly parts". The entire piece maybe...

 

[Mullaney]

Is this a 6 bolt pto that attaches to an Allison like a 939 series? I have a couple flange and shaft kits for direct mount pump with the 6 bolt style, so different than driveshaft style, but contains that part .....I think. Have you taken it all apart yet?

See the red part. While that is my Allison 1545 for my deuce, that pto is same as the ones (tranny) on most 939 series.

Okay....the bearing is way different ....sorry.

Hi Toby, I guess not. I took a few more pictures and added them to my original post.

Mine looks completely different on this M1088 (2003). Guessing my transmission in this one is different than the M936 (1984). The shifter on the tractor is push button and the wrecker is a T-Handle that slides forward and backward. Maybe they figured out that electrical powered was better than a big fat cable with no grease fitting in it. (metal linkage trumps both in my humble opinion)

 

[ramdough]

These are the best PTO pictures I have. Not sure if this helps. This is out of an A0 truck (tan) being put in an A1 truck (green).

Hope that helps some.

 

[ramdough]

The thing that I was most concerned about was getting the winch and frame pulleys. Got those. Removed them from the frame and have started working to clean and straighten and grease the rollers. In a cardboard box, I found the Chelsea PTO that was removed from the transmission. Nice & Red and the gear side looked really nice. The bolts were in the box too - so I was pretty excited.

Unfortunately, today when I pulled it out to clean it up, I found that the shaft side has a broken housing. I guess I am soliciting opinions... In theory that piece of iron - if I can find it should be cheaper than buying a new PTO. What I have has the electrical connections for an LMTV.

View attachment 822226
View attachment 822225 View attachment 822358 View attachment 822359 View attachment 822360

Unfortunately, no pump came with my new toys but I figure that can be found.

I have managed to get the tank mounted where it belongs. Need to build or find a stone shield so the front tire doesn't sling a rock up and drain 27 gallons of hydraulic fluid on the highway. (the wet is rain)

View attachment 822227

Before you get too far, it is easier to put the PTO in with the tank removed. Gives you more options to reach in there. The PTO is behind the so you have to reach in over the tank area and under the air cleaner. Awesomeness has a thread where he was doing the swap at the same time as me. We discussed how to reach in there....etc.

 

[Mullaney]

Before you get too far, it is easier to put the PTO in with the tank removed. Gives you more options to reach in there. The PTO is behind the so you have to reach in over the tank area and under the air cleaner. Awesomeness has a thread where he was doing the swap at the same time as me. We discussed how to reach in there....etc.

Nice. I will go hunt down that thread! We managed to get the winch bolted to the side of the truck today. I have a really amazing college kid that really gives me hope for the future of our country helping (doing) some MV work. He goes back to school in a couple of weeks but it sure has been nice to have the help... Tank is just sitting on its bracket with that single strap around it. Still empty and easy to pull out of the way.

 

[ramdough]

Nice. I will go hunt down that thread! We managed to get the winch bolted to the side of the truck today. I have a really amazing college kid that really gives me hope for the future of our country helping (doing) some MV work. He goes back to school in a couple of weeks but it sure has been nice to have the help... Tank is just sitting on its bracket with that single strap around it. Still empty and easy to pull out of the way.

Well, I looked for the thread. Maybe [mention]Awesomeness [/mention] can post the link to his winch install thread here.

A bit of advice on the PTO.

It will take all of two people to put it in place.

We dropped one end of the front drive shaft and removed the front cross member that looks like a “C” channel. We had the hoses installed in the PTO and fed them through the truck first and pulled the hose slack as we lifted the PTO.

In the picture I posted of the PTO being installed, I used a ratchet strap to help with the weight. The strap was looped up by the air cleaner. It took a few adjustments to make sure the strap did not fight us as we got higher with the PTO. I would pull tension on the strap while myself and [mention]fuzzytoaster [/mention] lifted the PTO and he pulled hoses. When we needed a break, we clicked the ratchet to hold the weight. When we were about to mate it, we rolled it out of the way and slid the gasket in place. Brett was on gasket watch duty while I rolled the PTO back into place. That was really hard and I am surprised I did not damage the gasket. After two loose bolts, we took a break and then painfully tightened the bolts. They were metric 12 point (don’t remember the size). I bought a set of swivel head 12 point sockets at Lowe’s. That helped a lot.

If you can remove the platform above your PTO, that would be a huge help for access.

Also tie all of your hoses up before you move your truck. One of mine touched the drive shaft and melted a hole in it.

Good luck, post pictures and questions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Awesomeness]

It will take all of two people to put it in place.

...

In the picture I posted of the PTO being installed, I used a ratchet strap to help with the weight. The strap was looped up by the air cleaner. It took a few adjustments to make sure the strap did not fight us as we got higher with the PTO. I would pull tension on the strap while myself and [mention]fuzzytoaster [/mention] lifted the PTO and he pulled hoses.

We used 3-4 people. We had one person standing up on the engine/air-cleaner/bed, holding a strap looped around the PTO, similar to what Ramdough did with the ratchet strap. We felt the person was able to control it better than with clicks of a ratchet strap, but if you don't have the people you do what you can. Once you get a few of the lower bolts in the PTO, it holds itself, so we only had the extra person up top for like 1/2 hour.

 

[Mullaney]

Well, I looked for the thread. Maybe [mention]Awesomeness [/mention] can post the link to his winch install thread here.

A bit of advice on the PTO.

It will take all of two people to put it in place.

We dropped one end of the front drive shaft and removed the front cross member that looks like a “C” channel. We had the hoses installed in the PTO and fed them through the truck first and pulled the hose slack as we lifted the PTO.

In the picture I posted of the PTO being installed, I used a ratchet strap to help with the weight. The strap was looped up by the air cleaner. It took a few adjustments to make sure the strap did not fight us as we got higher with the PTO. I would pull tension on the strap while myself and [mention]fuzzytoaster [/mention] lifted the PTO and he pulled hoses. When we needed a break, we clicked the ratchet to hold the weight. When we were about to mate it, we rolled it out of the way and slid the gasket in place. Brett was on gasket watch duty while I rolled the PTO back into place. That was really hard and I am surprised I did not damage the gasket. After two loose bolts, we took a break and then painfully tightened the bolts. They were metric 12 point (don’t remember the size). I bought a set of swivel head 12 point sockets at Lowe’s. That helped a lot.

If you can remove the platform above your PTO, that would be a huge help for access.

Also tie all of your hoses up before you move your truck. One of mine touched the drive shaft and melted a hole in it.

Good luck, post pictures and questions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Neat!! Thanks ramdough ! Just walking through the steps helps a lot. It really is amazing how heavy that little ball of iron is! And on your back, and reaching up over your head... Today for some reason, I tried my SAE sockets on the bolts that came with my PTO. Trying to plan ahead, and I was pretty disappointed that nothing I had fit the 12 point screw head. I muttered something about the metric "stuff" and figured a trip to Lowe's was in my future.

I like the ratchet strap idea a lot. We swung the winch off a sling strap that was wrapped around the drum. It held it tight and the forklift was really handy! Up a fuzz, down a hair... It worked so much better than I had hoped. I was pleasantly surprised to discover that the sections of grate over the transmission and muffler come apart in small sections. Leaving a place to lean down through and still have something substantial to stand on!

Thanks for the warning on the hoses. I can imagine the string of "not nice words" if I fouled up my new hoses!

- Tim

 

[Mullaney]

We used 3-4 people. We had one person standing up on the engine/air-cleaner/bed, holding a strap looped around the PTO, similar to what Ramdough did with the ratchet strap. We felt the person was able to control it better than with clicks of a ratchet strap, but if you don't have the people you do what you can. Once you get a few of the lower bolts in the PTO, it holds itself, so we only had the extra person up top for like 1/2 hour.

Thanks! Not sure that I could round up four people but that is an idea too. A bar or a 2x4 with the strap in the middle supporting the PTO would let two folks not have to work as hard as it would be with only one... Having multiple options is a good thing!

- Tim

 

[Mullaney]

Well, I looked for the thread. Maybe [mention]Awesomeness [/mention] can post the link to his winch install thread here.

A bit of advice on the PTO.

It will take all of two people to put it in place.

We dropped one end of the front drive shaft and removed the front cross member that looks like a “C” channel. We had the hoses installed in the PTO and fed them through the truck first and pulled the hose slack as we lifted the PTO.

In the picture I posted of the PTO being installed, I used a ratchet strap to help with the weight. The strap was looped up by the air cleaner. It took a few adjustments to make sure the strap did not fight us as we got higher with the PTO. I would pull tension on the strap while myself and [mention]fuzzytoaster [/mention] lifted the PTO and he pulled hoses. When we needed a break, we clicked the ratchet to hold the weight. When we were about to mate it, we rolled it out of the way and slid the gasket in place. Brett was on gasket watch duty while I rolled the PTO back into place. That was really hard and I am surprised I did not damage the gasket. After two loose bolts, we took a break and then painfully tightened the bolts. They were metric 12 point (don’t remember the size). I bought a set of swivel head 12 point sockets at Lowe’s. That helped a lot.

If you can remove the platform above your PTO, that would be a huge help for access.

Also tie all of your hoses up before you move your truck. One of mine touched the drive shaft and melted a hole in it.

Good luck, post pictures and questions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Winch is officially bolted to the frame of my M1088! The only strange thing was that the Platform Support Bracket had to be modified... No big deal, bit the winch when bolted in place covered the second hole in that bracket. Used a cutting wheel in a 4 inch grinder to slice it off. Pictures below also show that - after fighting it for hours - the muffler and heat shield behind the muffler were removed. That seemed like the only way to gain proper access to torque the 8 mounting bolts attaching the winch to the frame.

Removing two of the platform panels was the only way to make it happen easily. Even with a forklift and the winch on a pallet, picking it up was easier than lifting it and gave us more room to work!



Next step seems to be the cable guides or the fair leads. Initially I was concerned about the "cable path" out of the back of the truck. Seems that the cable will be above the springs with plenty of clearance.

.