Click, No Start M1009

[edpdx]

I mostly had this problem licked, but since I am doing some work under the engine, I thought I'd have another look. A couple of years back I replaced the starter with a Wilson MT28. I also replace suspect wiring to be sure there was no hidden corrosion clouding the issue. Now that fall is here I have been getting more of what seems to be a starter gear (Bendix) that hangs in the flexplate sometimes. I say that, but I am not sure- Whenever this happens and all I get is a loud clack (sounds like the starter, or maybe from behind the lower dash, I can try turning the key over and over until something frees-up and I get a crank, start again. If after I have tried to free the starter with multiple key turns, and I don't get a cranking of the starter, I get under and loosen both mounting bolt. I hear a loud metallic clunk, tighen up the bolts and she starts right up. But see what happens at 19 seconds

https://youtu.be/Me0KiKucnVI

I have just checked the clearance between the starter armature and the teeth of the flex plate using a 1/8" drill bit. There is about another 1/8" of play. I check the mesh of the teeth with a small paperclip and get easy clearance, but it is looking pretty close already. If I put another shim in to get the gears tighter, I am afraid I'll get more binding- AND that first measurement with the drill bit will be even greater.

Any ideas?

 

[dmetalmiki]

That .clack' with no start is a NO connection fault, either in the start solenoid itself, or down in the starter motor. I would not look any further than that.

 

[dmetalmiki]

Thinking about it some more, Check with a meter if current flows to the starter motor in the no start mode. (clack nothing mode.) = solenoid.
current flows but no start (unlikely in my opinion) . = starter motor?

 

[edpdx]

Thinking about it some more, Check with a meter if current flows to the starter motor in the no start mode. (clack nothing mode.) = solenoid.
current flows but no start (unlikely in my opinion) . = starter motor?

dmetalmiki, I'll check current, but I still can't understand why loosening the Starter Mounting Bolts frees the starter shaft, and then it starts without issue. It doesn't explain, and perhaps it is NOT related to, the issue of the enormous spacing between the the starter shaft and the teeth of the flexplate. Does this really not seem like a shimming problem?

 

[dmetalmiki]

I was going by 'the sound only', and it did not seem as though anything was fouling or seizing.
If I was 'On site' I might come up with a different diagnosis. To this end, Fitting a starter motor that requires shimming I have not experienced. (normally in the past, I just buy them, fit them, and hopefully go). But if this is a requirement, then there must be Data obtainable to ensure proper fitting.

 

[TGP (IL)]

The problem with the gear drive starters and even the Gov. issue Japan Delco's is the
Armature burns out a segment.
Starter will work fine until the armature stops with a brush over the bad commutater segment.

Then the bendix hangs in the flywheel

Instead of loosening the starter use a 15/16 deep socket on the front Crank pulley.
As soon as you rotate the engine you will hear the clunk of the bendix disengaging,
And in doing so it moves the armature just enough to get off the bad segment.

Then turn the key and start it.

Tom

 

[pjwest03]

One thing to check is to try jumping the solenoid directly. One of the frequently undiagnosed starter problems is that the start wire doesn't fully power the solenoid. If it cranks when you jump it, then the start circuit isn't supplying enough power to fully energize the solenoid. That can be the wire, the start relay, or something in the path. The doghead relay mod is a great idea if the relay is the issue.

Remember to be safe. Truck in neutral, wheels chocked and all that.

 

[edpdx]

The problem with the gear drive starters and even the Gov. issue Japan Delco's is the
Armature burns out a segment.
Starter will work fine until the armature stops with a brush over the bad commutater segment.

Then the bendix hangs in the flywheel.

Instead of loosening the starter use a 15/16 deep socket on the front Crank pulley.
As soon as you rotate the engine you will hear the clunk of the bendix disengaging,
And in doing so it moves the armature just enough to get off the bad segment.

Then turn the key and start it.

Tom

TGP (IL), What? I have not heard about this before... not doubting you in any way. Just glad to uncover a possible clue.

Does this mean that the Direct Drive versions are better suited to dependable starts?

 

[TGP (IL)]

The direct drive starters are more robust for sure.
They both have there pro's and con's.
I have replaced a couple of armatures and the problem comes back after a while.

A reputable auto electric repair shop can check your Armature for you.
Most intermittent starter problems can be traced to this problem.
It stumps a lot of people.
Tom

 

[Hillwalker]

Mine does this once in awhile and I either turn the engine by the belt and pulleys (not always easy) or with a socket on the main crank bolt. I hear a little clunk, then its good to start. Doesnt happen often, so Im not in a hurry to fix it.

 

[sneekyeye]

If someone brought a car in our shop that did like yours did at the 19 second mark in the video, I'd probably put a starter in it after checking the wiring. Test the resistance of the starter battery cable from the battery to the starter in case you might have a bad connection. Might as well check from the engine block to the battery negative to see how good your ground is. But to me it sounds like the classic bad spot in the starter thing. Also how good are your batteries, it sounds like they might be a little weak, or possibly just a tired starter. Your starter relay under the dash could be going out causing the starter circuit not to complete itself properly