Colorado Bill SB19-054 RE: (Former) Military Vehicle Motor Vehicle Regulation

[SgtMajHarper]

I'd be surprised. I'm professionally involved with the drives system and I'm not convinced they use any kind of data input sanitation at all.

I've been on pins and needles since this whole mess started, my truck and trailer registration renewals came last month and I wondered what shenanigans they would try at DOR. No problem; sailed right thru without a hitch, I have a 5 digit VIN on a 1967 truck and a 4 digit VIN on a 1960 trailer.

 

[41cl8m5]

wyowillys46 is correct the issue is 1981 and newer needing 17 digit vin numbers. Vehicles originally designed and used by the military only have serial numbers and most don't come close to 17 digits in Colorado.

Now the rub is 1981 and newer and the fact the AM General put that letter out that the HMMWV to all the states folks in charge of the DMVs nation wide was never designed to fuction on the state highway system. This letter was written by highly paid lawyers who are looking out for their client interests only. First instead of saying HMMWV it's written as Highly Mobility Multipurpose Wheels Vehicles designed for the U.S. and other Militaries, leading those to think who are reading this letter that it applies to ALL VEHICLES OF MILITARY ORIGIN! Also the date starting production of the Military Hummer was after 1981 so the letter addresses the serial number versus the civilian Hummer having a actual 17 digit vin number and only the Hummer brand with the 17 digit vin can be titled for ON ROAD USE ONLY, the vehicles with serial numbers were never ment to be used on the public highway system by private citizens so these vehicles should only be titled for OFF ROAD USE ONLY.....

You can see how this letter and the interpretation of it has just messed up everything. AM General is happy as a fat cat about it maintains their control of interest. Also with all the other makes of vehicles that been put into the pot with this letter the value of the market goes down because only the scrapers will bid on these auctions and most will end up scrapped.

Now back to the HMMWV and the Hummer. Same running gear, same frame, same body. And just like the modern Jeep you can remove the doors, remove the top,lower the windshield. So what is the difference? Hold on NHSTA requires 3 point seat belts, ok both have that or can be modified. Side impact beams, what about the Jeep and removable doors? Now air bag and padded dash I'll give you that one but that is required manufactured new and the original receiver of the vehicle would know of the non conformance.. now we are not talking new, we are talking used and most used vehicle purchases are assumed as "as is and where is" with any and all defects known or unknown also. So why is it such a big deal?

 

[Steve86]

I just purchased a M998 from Arizona thinking I could register it in Colorado. After I got it,the DMV let me know the laws had changed so I found this thread. What are the chances I'll actually get a license plate for this any time soon?

 

[Another Ahab]

I just purchased a M998 from Arizona thinking I could register it in Colorado. After I got it,the DMV let me know the laws had changed so I found this thread. What are the chances I'll actually get a license plate for this any time soon?

Whatever the law "on the books", typically one is eligible to file an exception.

That's the way the program works for zoning law anyway (which is the limit of my experience).

But it might also apply to other legislation (but if you go that route you got to be willing to do all the homework and filing).

 

[SgtMajHarper]

I just purchased a M998 from Arizona thinking I could register it in Colorado. After I got it,the DMV let me know the laws had changed so I found this thread. What are the chances I'll actually get a license plate for this any time soon?

I'd say the short answer is "not good" and "not soon".....lots of history up thru the thread on what Colo. DOR has been doing about no longer registering previously titled and licensed military vehicles. The last thing that may have helped us got slammed when the "Chi-com flu" hit and the legislature bunkered down at home for @ 3 months and did no work. "Maybe" they will take it up next year for a "maybe" early fall time frame law change, but think they were only going to allow 40 year old ( maybe 30?) or older to be registered as a collector.

 

[Atmus]

Does anyone know for sure either way if trailers affected by this? There are a couple equipment trailers nearby that I think would be pretty good as a base for a project I've been planning on for awhile.

 

[Awesomeness]

Does anyone know for sure either way if trailers affected by this? There are a couple equipment trailers nearby that I think would be pretty good as a base for a project I've been planning on for awhile.

Not totally sure, but the laws are specifically referring to motorized vehicles. Trailers are not motor vehicles.

 

[Atmus]

Well I guess I'll sit on hold with the DMV for an hour or so on Monday to find out, haha.

 

[Awesomeness]

Well I guess I'll sit on hold with the DMV for an hour or so on Monday to find out, haha.

Let me know what you find out. I have one to register too. I plan to play dumb.

 

[SgtMajHarper]

Does anyone know for sure either way if trailers affected by this? There are a couple equipment trailers nearby that I think would be pretty good as a base for a project I've been planning on for awhile.

I had no problem getting my 1960 M101 trailer re-registered this year; it only has a 4 digit VIN, but it was a renewal, not a first time register deal. I do know a guy that last year went to re-register his previously licensed M101 trailer and they (DOR) made him get a state issued "homemade trailer" VIN plate to be able to register it.

A "homemade trailer" VIN is actually pretty easy; build your trailer "from parts", make out a little statement saying I got this part here and that part there, think pickup bed trailer turned into junk hauler. Be sure to value the parts cheap as they tax you for how expensive it is, smaller trailers are easier, not sure how big you can go until they require it be weighed. Kind of a pain in the rear process, but it let's you get license plates and a title.

 

[Atmus]

Well it was a Wednesday, but only had to hold for 30 minutes.

The lady on the phone didn't understand the distinction between military and non-military trailers, but the supervisor said there wouldn't be a problem registering it so long as I can prove I bought it legally and it passes (or rather, doesn't fail) a VIN verification. I was very specific about it being ex-military property and my concern being that would disqualify it from registration.

However, neither of them knew I couldn't register a m923, so I don't know how much stock I'm putting into this answer.

 

[41cl8m5]

The Colorado Legislator tabled everything not finalized when they got back from the COVID 19 "stay at home orders" to work on a bunch of new stuff that due to political issues of the times had more priority. The Legislator is now closed for 2020.

So, hopefully next year we get to ether start over from the beginning or if things line up right maybe go from the point the new bill left off. At this point it's anyone's guess. Remember there is an election before the state of Colorado rule makers get back to business in January 2021.

Also we will be working with the same ill informed Colorado DMV and the DMV bosses the Colorado DOR folks that just have a single thought pattern and it is very hard to come to an agreement with everyone that gets involved. It's a bunch of folks that number almost as much as the members in the MVCC (Military Vehicle Collector's of Colorado) , about 100. Some against some for. And I'm not talking about the Legislators that do the voting. Just the ones giving arguments.

 

[Awesomeness]

South Dakota Has Made Millions From Out-of-State Car Registrations

It's like the Cayman Islands for car registrations.

www.thedrive.com

 

[SgtMajHarper]

South Dakota Has Made Millions From Out-of-State Car Registrations

It's like the Cayman Islands for car registrations.

www.thedrive.com

My nephew and family have finally had enough of Colorado's leftist leaning ideals and sold everything that was tied down and bought some lake front property in Montana. He told me it was a breeze to register "anything" in Montana, the highest priced plates were $200 for more expensive vehicles, $25 for most of his trailers and the plates are permenant........no inspections, no hassle, no red tape, $200 max. for lifetime plates......looks like we are going to be adding his name to a couple of titles and getting registered at his new place and Colorado can KMA.

 

[ExUSAF]

Well it has been 4.5 years since I have bought my M998 from Govplanet for 10,500. dollars, shipping truck transport was $860 for Utah. shipping connection charge was $178. Colorado state tax was $336.40 Denver county was $127.60 City sales tax was $423.40 as well as 10 % for GovPlanet that was another $1050. dollars.. The auction date was 10/7/15. I had to wait 8 months to get all the paper work through.. When I got the M998 I had it sent to a diesel shop to fix and repair power train problems and do all the things to make it work properly and the bill was $1200. for that. I have been working on this m998 since then in an RV storage lot and paying $75. a month for that.. lets see that cost now $4800. by now for 52 months of storage.. I also have bought a two man hard cab kit for $3000. from Utah company I do all the work. I have bought power tools and new lights and paint metal plates and things to make it look good as a proper military representation of what it was, as I have shown here I am not a rich man but a mechanic as I work for King Soopers here in Denver Colorado. and make $30 an hour. I am an old guy in his sixties and have no kids and no partner.. However I was in the USAF in the 1980's and the start of the first Gulf War.. The military made me proud of the USA and when I got out I bought a m715, worked it for 20 years, sold it for $8200. and bought the m998.. and that is my story here.. About a 2 months ago I was working on the M998 as the Arapahoe County law enforcement was checking out cars parked on the street out side the fenced area, one of the officers told me that the humvee was very good looking and told me that I will NEVER get that on state roads as the law was passed last year.. To my shock I read and re-read the 2019a-054 law and realized that I was out of time, to register the humvee and the money I have worked so hard pay for the proper restoration, now going to be 5000 pound green drive way ornament... I just don't understand how it's possible to screw up the text of the law through NOT understanding what is written by the law makers.. There is a serious contradiction as in the definition of the military vehicle... see photo .. an my m998.. I am making the point that am out of the use of this m998 as a historical vehicle as well as all my hard earned money busting fingers and burning my arms working as a industrial mechanic all those years.. I am still lucky to have a job today even as people have passed away from the virus at Kroger and KingSooprs. I have reached the end of the working on the m998 and will have to get this on the road legal way through South Dakota registration and Colorado will NOT get my money any more.. Al from Denver an ex -veteran the gulf wars...

 

[ExUSAF]

Well it has been 4.5 years since I have bought my M998 from Govplanet for 10,500. dollars, shipping truck transport was $860 for Utah. shipping connection charge was $178. Colorado state tax was $336.40 Denver county was $127.60 City sales tax was $423.40 as well as 10 % for GovPlanet that was another $1050. dollars.. The auction date was 10/7/15. I had to wait 8 months to get all the paper work through.. When I got the M998 I had it sent to a diesel shop to fix and repair power train problems and do all the things to make it work properly and the bill was $1200. for that. I have been working on this m998 since then in an RV storage lot and paying $75. a month for that.. lets see that cost now $4800. by now for 52 months of storage.. I also have bought a two man hard cab kit for $3000. from Utah company I do all the work. I have bought power tools and new lights and paint metal plates and things to make it look good as a proper military representation of what it was, as I have shown here I am not a rich man but a mechanic as I work for King Soopers here in Denver Colorado. and make $30 an hour. I am an old guy in his sixties and have no kids and no partner.. However I was in the USAF in the 1980's and the start of the first Gulf War.. The military made me proud of the USA and when I got out I bought a m715, worked it for 20 years, sold it for $8200. and bought the m998.. and that is my story here.. About a 2 months ago I was working on the M998 as the Arapahoe County law enforcement was checking out cars parked on the street out side the fenced area, one of the officers told me that the humvee was very good looking and told me that I will NEVER get that on state roads as the law was passed last year.. To my shock I read and re-read the 2019a-054 law and realized that I was out of time, to register the humvee and the money I have worked so hard pay for the proper restoration, now going to be 5000 pound green drive way ornament... I just don't understand how it's possible to screw up the text of the law through NOT understanding what is written by the law makers.. There is a serious contradiction as in the definition of the military vehicle... see photo .. an my m998.. I am making the point that am out of the use of this m998 as a historical vehicle as well as all my hard earned money busting fingers and burning my arms working as a industrial mechanic all those years.. I am still lucky to have a job today even as people have passed away from the virus at Kroger and KingSooprs. I have reached the end of the working on the m998 and will have to get this on the road legal way through South Dakota registration and Colorado will NOT get my money any more.. Al from Denver an ex -veteran the gulf wars...

 

[ExUSAF]

So the Colorado governor on the 13 of July 2020 signed and passed an additional exemption law for surplus military vehicles if they are to be used for fire fighting use by counties, so those are allowed on public roads as surplus military vehicles only, so the rest of civilians who own surplus military vehicles are shut out and cannot use these vehicles on public roads.. However if you call your vehicle a "Historic Military vehicle" you may get it registered as it is not "surplus" which means excess of.. So it must be that any one that purchased ex-military surplus vehicle now is outlawed on public roads in Colorado. No registration is possible as written in the Colorado Senate Bill 2019-54a. There is a contradiction of the "Off Highway Vehicle" paragraph as it includes "Surplus Military Vehicles" written as "allowed only" off highway vehicle. As to the "Colorado department of revenue memo about that "NOTE" it must be a mistake by some revenue manager who just does NOT understand the Colorado Senate Bill 2019-54a.. Then it excludes "Historical Military Vehicles"...from being a "off highway vehicle". My understanding is that any thing that is self propelled and is of ex military may be a "Historical Military Vehicle" as there is NO date as to what is defines "Historical" ... and it has to be "military looking" ... I would suggest that keeping it green and military looking may be the ONLY way to get the beast on the road.. I don't think that to state trooper will bat an eye if it looks green and military..
I will take this Colorado Senate Bill 2019-54a to my lawyer and see if it is legal to register my M998 as a "Historical Military Vehicle"...
Al from Denver Colorado..

 

[ExUSAF]

Last night I decided to move out of Colorado and seek a more progressive conservative state that respects the military and the right to self determine my own future. Colorado has very big problems, social pot and drug usage with many homeless users up to %80, and it's not where I want to drive my M998..
Now that I have completed the M998 after 4.5 years of working on it , I want to drive this M998 on state public roads legally, however it is now NOT possible here as the Colorado state governor signed in to the State law that only way to drive this M998 is to get it registered as an "off highway vehicle"..
I don't have a tow truck and a trailer to pull the 5000 pound M998, so that means the M998 will sit in my garage till I move out of Colorado... Since I have no family and every one I have known in my age group has already passed away from being old there is nothing to look forward here for me.. attached is a photo on my old M-715 1967 that I no longer have as this was my last M-715 that I have worked on.. here in Denver and the plates where collector blue as can be seen in the photo.. The plates where good for 5 years and it was $250 registration.. There was NO VIN number just a serial data plate in the dash and I had no problem with any of my prior military vehicles with DMV, looks like things have have gotten smoother with computers as VIN number is now required by the DMV as the state computers have problems with short serial numbers one needs to have to state police to issue out a "new" long digit VIN number so the state computers will accept the number. And here is another problem as the government issued "Certificate to obtain title to a vehicle" has stamped on top with a red stamp "off road use only' the state police will NOT give you a VIN number as the "off road use only" is an instruction to them by a federal agency, and state police is a para-military organization which will follow the read stamp as a direct order.. So to end this post there is NO WAY around this problem except to move out of Colorado.. and as they chopped the head of Marie Antoinette “Let them eat cake” is the most famous quote attributed to Marie-Antoinette, the queen of France during the French Revolution. As the story goes, it was the queen's response upon being told that her starving peasant subjects had no bread. The END...

 

[jrtoffroad]

Any updates on this? I didn't see mention of SB 20 - 115 which should ALLOW a military vehicle to be titled for on-road use IF it is to be used for farm purposes. If you haven't seen it: Register Surplus Military Vehicle As Farm Vehicle | Colorado General Assembly

Not sure if that helps anyone here. But it just might.

One other thought, what would it take to get a military vehicle assigned a new 17-digit VIN in CO?
From a quick google search for the related forms.
DR2709.pdf (colorado.gov)
DR 2408 (colorado.gov)

Seems doable, not sure if our rigs would qualify or not...

 

[SgtMajHarper]

Any updates on this? I didn't see mention of SB 20 - 115 which should ALLOW a military vehicle to be titled for on-road use IF it is to be used for farm purposes. If you haven't seen it: Register Surplus Military Vehicle As Farm Vehicle | Colorado General Assembly

Not sure if that helps anyone here. But it just might.

One other thought, what would it take to get a military vehicle assigned a new 17-digit VIN in CO?
From a quick google search for the related forms.
DR2709.pdf (colorado.gov)
DR 2408 (colorado.gov)

Seems doable, not sure if our rigs would qualify or not...

The legislature from what I was told was working under dire circumstances this session due to the "Chi-Com Flu" restrictions, they were only going to deal with "emergency situations and health related stuff" to take care of us all with social distance, remote working, etc. The very first thing they did when in session was to pass bills restricting oil development in the state and other environmental stuff ....... so they passed some more gun restrictions, no plastic bags when you go to the store, no styrofoam containers for take out food, school resource officers can't investigate crimes on school grounds or interview kids, can't arrest anyone except for very very serious crimes, no bail required for up to class 3 felonies, you can possess twice as much pot for personal use as before........you get the idea.......they completely bailed on any legislation dealing with our licensing issue.

As far as state assigned VIN's, you can't get a new VIN issued for our historic military vehicles, you can for a homemade trailer, a re-built totaled out wrecked car ( with lots of hoop jumping, bonded titles, etc.), a stolen car recovered by LE and maybe the original VIN plate was popped off........the only way it helps us is if you have a surplus trailer with no VIN you can "home-make" it by working on it, "making it" and then get a VIN and plates, not so with motorized vehicles.