Connected my MEP-803A the proper way as my home standby generator... Install pics...

[Another Ahab]

Glockfan, excellent work! your setup looks great. I've always understood that the generator should be treated like a sub panel where as the neutral and grounds are un-bonded at the generator and you run all 4 wires ( 2 hot, neutral and ground ) to your main panel, in order to maintain a single ground path. What did I miss here??
Thanks... Ray

I'm supposing there's a good reason for a single ground path:

- Maybe it's about simplicity ensuring certainty.

I am no electrician (or electrical engineer) by a long shot, but I'm always interested to know stuff.

Can any of you "Sparky" experts here, give a simple layman's explanation for this?

And if that's easier said-than-done, then I'll understand that too. But some of us would be interested to know.

 

[Chainbreaker]

I'm supposing there's a good reason for a single ground path:

- Maybe it's about simplicity ensuring certainty.

I am no electrician (or electrical engineer) by a long shot, but I'm always interested to know stuff.

Can any of you "Sparky" experts here, give a simple layman's explanation for this?

And if that's easier said-than-done, then I'll understand that too. But some of us would be interested to know.

I'm no sparky but here is what I understand: Having multiple grounds can induce a ground loop situation where you could end up with current back flowing through another nearby ground point.

In layman's terms, it might be best to think of a single ground point as like a typical city home's sewer line discharge out to the sewer main and water like electricity that flows DOWN it. If you somehow were lets say connected/tied (cross T'd) into your neighbors house before both your and his sewer mains and his sewer discharge became restricted right before the main his discharge could backflow through your T' and could come back into your house because you created a backflow path for it to do that (path of least resistance).

So in simplistic terms that is why you want to discharge any current through only one ground point so you don't give it a potential return path or set up a ground loop potential.

However, if you were going to need to disconnect your generator's power feed (with gnd wire) from your house (lets say you use an inlet box connector) you would lose your ground and would then need a local ground near your generator to service or load test it while the generator's house ground were disconnected (also would need to temporarily re-bond neutral to frame ground) when using it as a SDS (self derived system).

 

[90cummins]

There is no such thing as too much filtration for diesel fuel.
It is additional insurance that your generator will not fail you when you need it most.
Filters are consumables and Injection pumps & and injectors have an infinite life if the fuel is free of contaminates & water, and the cleaner the better.
I do believe there are moisture absorbing filters but at the very least you can install an automotive oil or hydraulic filter on the end a 1/2" npt nipple.
A Wix 51515 is just one of many that will keep air borne dirt out.
90cummins

 

[DieselAddict]

I'm supposing there's a good reason for a single ground path:

- Maybe it's about simplicity ensuring certainty.

I am no electrician (or electrical engineer) by a long shot, but I'm always interested to know stuff.

Can any of you "Sparky" experts here, give a simple layman's explanation for this?

And if that's easier said-than-done, then I'll understand that too. But some of us would be interested to know.

The reason why you go with a single point ground is to make sure that the ground conductors carry only fault current. If you bond the neutral and ground in multiple places you are creating parallel conductors that can carry neutral current and fault current. Current will follow all paths which means that neutral current will be split between the neutral and ground between the bonding points.

Maintaining individual paths for neutral current and fault current ensures that the energy goes where it is supposed to go and makes it less likely to go into you.

 

[Ratch]

I'm supposing there's a good reason for a single ground path:

- Maybe it's about simplicity ensuring certainty.

I am no electrician (or electrical engineer) by a long shot, but I'm always interested to know stuff.

Can any of you "Sparky" experts here, give a simple layman's explanation for this?

And if that's easier said-than-done, then I'll understand that too. But some of us would be interested to know.

Another reason is current flow in the earth .
Different places in the soil can have different potential (think voltage).
You could have positively charged earth (IE +1 volt) near negatively charged earth (-1 volt), with no conductor between them. Now you stick a rod in each one, and connect a wire between them, and you have an effective electric force of 2 volts. Current will flow, and while probably not a huge safety issue, it creates some unpredictability in the electrical system. Magnetically sensitive systems would be affected (analog meters), noise will come out in video and audio systems. It may effect neutral, but I'm not sure. It will also behave as an antenna, and could increase the odds that dangerous transient voltages will be exposed in appliances and devices using the chassis ground during lightning storms, but not by a lot.
But it's also theoretically possible for two different points near each other to be charged with several hundred thousand volts difference. It's impractical to worry about because that much difference in potential would force some ground conductivity to neutralize itself. But that's essentially what lightning is. The ground is one charge while the clouds are another, and when there's enough voltage to make the jump, lightning strikes.

If potential is the same, there could also be a significant difference in ground conductivity between points as close as 50'.

I handled a radio tower site once that was very prone to lightning strikes. We tried several different grounding systems, and eventually the one that worked best was a ring of ground rods around the buildings, all bonded and buried, with all equipment and electrical grounds being bonded to a single point. That didn't solve the lightning, but straightening that out helped our equipment survive more.

 

[Ratch]

I think I said the same thing as DA...

 

[Another Ahab]

I think I said the same thing as DA...

To you all, all this makes sense; but for some of us with minds unschooled in the art, it's helpful to hear it multiple ways to make it start to "stick".

Electricity has always seemed kind of mysterious:

- Whenever I asked two or more electricians on a job the same electrical question, they'd each answer it in a way that suggested each one had an explanation that they understood, but no two of them would answer it the same way. That always confounded me,

Thanks for all the explanations here.

 

[Glockfan]

After having the ground loop explained, I may disconnect the ground rod at the genset. The county inspector didn't indicate that this was necessary but it just makes sense. I never imagined that the scenario would exist but it's feasible. Our county now requires two ground rods. By me adding the DPDT switch, I had to have another ground rod driven to bring my home up to current code. The second rod is about 12 feet from my generator so a loop could exist, maybe, one day...

 

[tim292stro]

Sorry for the late reply, I'm on the road right now.

I think I spoke to the filtering subject in a previous post, a fuel filter which circulates only the fuel in the aux tank will catch sediment and algae and water and return it to your tank. I think you ended up doing just a simple inline filter from the tank to the generator's aux input. That's probably fine, not the best you can do, but probably plenty. Think of my proposed solution as the Bugatti Veron Super Sport - your solution is like a Porsche 996 GT4... Not the best, but very, very far from the worst. With your solution, the worst that should happen it that you fill up the water trap or the filter clogs from sediment build-up. If you watch your system, you shouldn't run into problems.

I agree shading the tank is still a good idea, you'd be surprised how well just a few inches of air and a white shell will protect the tank and fuel from major changes.

On grounding, Mike Holt always does a great job of explaining it:

 

[Another Ahab]

On grounding, Mike Holt always does a great job of explaining it:

This guy Mike Holt is great. I like his explanations.

Interesting that he says "Lightning? We don't understand it".

I'm not totally convinced that we totally understand electricity either. But we use it anyhow (and it seems to work for us anyway).

 

[tim292stro]

A professionally trained Engineer will tell you, if we don't truly understand it, we design its use in such a way as to mitigate the risks if we made a mistake.

 

[exousia]

Thank you so much for this exceptionally helpful and well detailed account. This has answered so many of the questions I have had in my mind as I contemplate a similar project. The clarity of your explanations as well as the quality of your photos, has provided exemplary information concerning the things for which to watch out, as well as some of the easier ways to do things. The transparency of your account as you later recognized some things might have been accomplished differently or in different order, speaks highly to your personal character as well as your expertise in these matters. Thank you for your practical mentoring and personal concern to help others.

 

[robson1015]

Excellent post Glockfan. Very nice work. Paint the fuel tank to match the generator is the only thing I would add.

 

[Glockfan]

Excellent post Glockfan. Very nice work. Paint the fuel tank to match the generator is the only thing I would add.

Yea, good suggestion. My thoughts were initially to leave it bright aluminum to reflect the heat from the sun. I may paint it. I still have not gotten around to putting the fence up to hide it from view. It's only visible from my back yard inside my privacy fence so I've been dragging my feet on finishing this.

Strangly enough, I've been hoping for a power outage to justify to my wife why I went through the effort to put all of this in place! Maybe this winter...

 

[jimbo913]

I am having a similar situation. Prior to getting the generator our power would blip constantly and go out at least every 5-6 months. Granted I have only had it since April and the Hurricanes have been few and far the last two years but even the blips have stopped. Better to have and not need I guess, and I am saving fuel each day I dont have to run it.
Sold off all my other gensets so I only have $600 in the MEP-803.

I did find other uses for it such as powering AC/DC stick welder without re-wiring the garage and also just bought a nice 1-phase/ 3-phase Mig/Tig/Stick welder which I will likely power with 3-phase from the generator.

NOW is a good time to up your Diesel stores. It must be cheap down there because off road is under $2 gal here.

I decided to keep mine on the trailer for now since I found other uses for it. I will back the trailer beside the power inlet for the winter in the next few weeks.

 

[robson1015]

Glockfan- Your wife will think you are wasting your time on this project till the power is out for a long spell and she wants to take a hot shower. Then she will realize again that you are her hero and reward you as such...lol

 

[robson1015]

I went to the trouble of converting a 12000 watt Generac portable gasoline unit to natural gas a few years ago. Ran a gas hookup and 30 amp receptacle outside for the hookup. Wife wasn't impressed till the power was out for 5 days due to a severe wind storm. Now she understands. I had 3 generators on hand of various sizes and sold all of them during the outage. Saved one guys life that purchasing a generator, stated he was going to run it in his basement till the power came back on.!

 

[robson1015]

Generators are like police officers - Don't appreciate them or give them much thought till you really need them.

 

[Glockfan]

Glockfan- Your wife will think you are wasting your time on this project till the power is out for a long spell and she wants to take a hot shower. Then she will realize again that you are her hero and reward you as such...lol

I'm sure that will be the case. Right now she just knows it as that "thing" in the backyard!

 

[Glockfan]

I went to the trouble of converting a 12000 watt Generac portable gasoline unit to natural gas a few years ago. Ran a gas hookup and 30 amp receptacle outside for the hookup. Wife wasn't impressed till the power was out for 5 days due to a severe wind storm. Now she understands. I had 3 generators on hand of various sizes and sold all of them during the outage. Saved one guys life that purchasing a generator, stated he was going to run it in his basement till the power came back on.!

Just curious, have you ever estimated how much natural gas it takes to run the unit? Did your gas bill increase significantly the month you used it for five days?