• Steel Soldiers now has a few new forums, read more about it at: New Munitions Forums!

  • Microsoft MSN, Live, Hotmail, Outlook email users may not be receiving emails. We are working to resolve this issue. Please add support@steelsoldiers.com to your trusted contacts.

Conservative max weight ratings

Gunfreak25

Well-known member
1,561
620
113
Location
Yuma, AZ
It seems to me that the Military rated both the Deuce's and 5 ton's very conservatively in the weight category. Even the old 10 ton was in NO way a 10 ton truck. I have heard of them hauling as much as 300 Tons!!! I guess it was a matter of how much the vehicles COULD haul whilst still retaining their practicality? Obviously if a truck could haul 3X what was rated on the dash, but was quote slow on hills it would not be a very useful vehicle. Although the Multifuels are pretty lousy in the HP category they have extremely steep gears and lots of torque to get the job done.
 

Riktord

Member
78
1
6
Location
Dallas, TX
The 2.5 Ton and 5 Ton designation are in reference to the truck frame payload capabilities. When the designations of 1/2 Ton, 3/4 Ton and 1 Ton were first used it was to directly refer the trucks payload capacity. As trucks became bigger they needed larger designation and thus as their payload capacity increased... So did their frame designation.

By the old description the Deuce can carry 2.5 tons worth of payload when in reality it's 5 tons.
 

Varyag

Member
927
2
16
Location
Garfield, Washington
I deuce will carry much more then 5 tons... it just isn't safe. We squatted the springs on one really bad bringing fresh track to the field once. battalion felt it would be more fun to change it out in BFE rather then in the motor pool. I think it was one of the few days I was kind of pissed to be a tanker.
 

paulfarber

New member
1,081
20
0
Location
Gordon, PA
The placard ratings (speed, max load) are for OFF ROAD use.

The M35 is rated for 5 tons on hard surfaced roads, but only 2.5 tons off road.

Its in the TMs.

If you do load up to 5 tons, tire air pressure must be adjusted appropriately.
 

rlwm211

Active member
1,648
18
38
Location
Guilford, NY
I would offer tha the brakes of the deuce are the most limiting factor. The brake system turns motion into heat via a friction method and the heat dissipation ability of the deuce fades considerably when you go over the 5 ton payload limit.

Add to that the minimal horsepower and you have a truck that when it is overloaded, simply cannot get up to any appreciable speed easily. This does not mean you cannot get up to 45 mph, it simply means it will take a while.

Locally there is some individual who is hauling logs with a deuce. I see his truck with logs hanging 3 feet off the back, piled up in the log bunks, and know he is an accident waiting to happen.

Common sense is an important component of safe vehicle operation and I would guess that the military used the designations 2-1/2 and 5 ton the way they did to try to reinforce this.

RL
 
Last edited:

cattlerepairman

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
3,250
3,340
113
Location
NORTH (Canada)
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/10081-27-700-lbs-deuce.html

I agree with what was said above. It is one thing to find the weight that finally buckles the frame, but how much can the brakes and suspension handle?
How much can they handle safely?

I also remember a picture of a deuce that was crushed when a semi dump trailer fell onto it (I think it was a cement trailer). I searched but could not find the pictures. Axles bent, and all.

So, that weight of THAT is too heavy for a Deuce.
 

Dodge man

New member
530
6
0
Location
Fl
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/10081-27-700-lbs-deuce.html

I agree with what was said above. It is one thing to find the weight that finally buckles the frame, but how much can the brakes and suspension handle?
How much can they handle safely?

I also remember a picture of a deuce that was crushed when a semi dump trailer fell onto it (I think it was a cement trailer). I searched but could not find the pictures. Axles bent, and all.

So, that weight of THAT is too heavy for a Deuce.
There was a deuce like that in one of the GL listings. It was about six months ago IIRC. I THINK it was somewhere in the SE US (Alabama?)
 

Dodge man

New member
530
6
0
Location
Fl
The placard ratings (speed, max load) are for OFF ROAD use.

The M35 is rated for 5 tons on hard surfaced roads, but only 2.5 tons off road.

Its in the TMs.

If you do load up to 5 tons, tire air pressure must be adjusted appropriately.
Correct. Per the TMs, the M-37 is rated at 3/4 ton off road but 1 1/2 ton on road. The matching M101A1 trailer is also rated at double it's normal 3/4 ton rating when used on a paved road. I THINK that's pretty standard for most US military vehicles and trailers.

FWIW a friend of mine claims to have carried 12 1/2 tons in a deuce while on paved roads. But I agree with others here that safe braking ability is probably the limiting factor.
 

11Echo

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
2,225
92
48
Location
CT W. R.
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/10081-27-700-lbs-deuce.html

I agree with what was said above. It is one thing to find the weight that finally buckles the frame, but how much can the brakes and suspension handle?
How much can they handle safely?

I also remember a picture of a deuce that was crushed when a semi dump trailer fell onto it (I think it was a cement trailer). I searched but could not find the pictures. Axles bent, and all.

So, that weight of THAT is too heavy for a Deuce.
This the truck?

I often haul nice loads in my tipper. It has 11R20's and can run 62-63mph empty. I don't run over 55 loaded and stay off the freeways. I can't overload the truck because the box isn't big enough.
 

Attachments

mdmorgan

AM3 U.S. Navy
1,085
102
63
Location
Forsyth, Ga.
That bad storm that came through last weekend blew down a lot of big pines up at our boat club campground, so this weekend we are on log duty to haul them off, gonna use both mine and the wifes truck and a m105, we will take pics. this will be the biggest load i've put in my deuce(gonna be 2011 ga rally fire wood).:beer:
 

hdmax

New member
188
5
0
Location
new Lexington, Ohio
There is a huge difference between hauling 27,000 lbs, and having that weight dropped onto it.
Tires will give out before anything else, brake fade will is a big problem as well.
I moved M60's around the concrete motor pool area with an M35A2, but that don't mean you can tow 60+ ton down the road.
Use common sense, and stay in the design limits and all should be fine. But don't expect to drive down the highway at 50 mph with 3-5 ton on its back.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/10081-27-700-lbs-deuce.html

I agree with what was said above. It is one thing to find the weight that finally buckles the frame, but how much can the brakes and suspension handle?
How much can they handle safely?

I also remember a picture of a deuce that was crushed when a semi dump trailer fell onto it (I think it was a cement trailer). I searched but could not find the pictures. Axles bent, and all.

So, that weight of THAT is too heavy for a Deuce.
 

Stretch44875

Super Jr. Moderator
Super Moderator
Steel Soldiers Supporter
2,960
30
48
Location
Tiro, Ohio
Well, my M108 is 20,000lbs empty. So I am hauling 3.5 tons with a deuce drivetrain and brakes at 55 mph everywhere I go. It's rated for another 3500lbs payload, on road, and 0 payload off-road.

And the gravel load was my M35.
 

11Echo

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
2,225
92
48
Location
CT W. R.
Well, my M108 is 20,000lbs empty. So I am hauling 3.5 tons with a deuce drivetrain and brakes at 55 mph everywhere I go. It's rated for another 3500lbs payload, on road, and 0 payload off-road.

And the gravel load was my M35.
What Stretch said [thumbzup]

I have hauled over a hundred of these kind of loads with my deuce at 55 mph with no problems, including brake fade. It is no rocket ship to that speed and I do not tailgate.
 

Attachments

Jake0147

Member
782
18
18
Location
Panton, VT
I'm going to pick on the deuce, because it's what I'm familiar with, but the others are principally the same.

Weight ratings are a lot different than they were back when they were given their classifications. Back when the M35 was new, it's civilian weight rating would have been (or would have been able to have been) 40,000 pounds. That's what the components were good for. (12,000 pound front axle, and two fourteen thousand pound rears). The front tires obviously would have been chosen differently.

Bear in mind, this was a time when a driver was someone who drove, and not just a passenger in the right front seat. A driver knew how to not overdrive his brakes. (Which were rated for the axle loads). A driver knew what his point of no return was when he crested a hill. A truck that didn't have the horsepower to keep up to speed was not "weak", it's just how it was. Add more gears until it can get the job done. A truck creeping down a hill was not a traffic hazard, it was just what trucks did. The deuce was good for every penny of that weight.

Fast forward to today.... Most drivers have no or limited experience (regardless of knowledge of the subject) in keeping track of their brakes. Today's brakes have us spoiled to where we don't think twice about following the speed limit down a winding mountainside. They are overkill to the point that you almost have to actively try to make them overheat. Or up it for that matter. Most little economy cars have as much horsepower as the Deuce.
Road speed limits (and expectations, and even minimum speed limits in some cases) are way beyond what was out there when the deuce came around. Traffic is thick enough and pushy enough that driving in what was the accustomed style then is not practical now. Driving below the speed limit DOES make you a traffic hazard, simply because "the other guy" does not know how to react to that, and even if they did, they don't have the patience to do so.
It is simply not practical to say that what a weight rating was then would be comperable in the same way now as it was then.

If you're in an environment where there is no other traffic, where speed is not an issue, and where you're free to drive the truck to it's ability, and most importantly NOT to anybody else's expectations, it can and will still move a mountain. Way over the data tag ratings, and way over the component ratings. Remember those components were designed back when stuff was "built" as much as it was "engineered".
The trouble is when you throw modern speeds, modern traffic, and modern pushiness into the mix. Ever try to leave a ten or twelve second following distance to the car in front of you? You can have every intention in the world of driving safely, but is anyone else going to allow you to keep that distance? Not today. Probably not tomorrow. When you're the only vehicle on the road, except for one car who wants to pull in from a side street, how much time will THEY allow you before they pull out in front? Probably just enough for a modern truck with modern tires to stop.


The bottom line is, the structural capacity of the truck the truck (which is easily attainable) is from a different era.
40,000 pounds. Limited to 36 with the most common tire selection. Way less with some options. DOT is good with those numbers even today.
In today's world, short of having your own acreage with a private road network, you will never safely realize the structural capacity. Of course, if you do have such a situation, you'll quickly realize that tires can hold many many times their "rating" with no damage if you never move fast enough to heat them up. (The more the weight, the slower that is). Same goes for structural members. They're rated for what they can carry at a given speed, and with a given durability. You can go WAY over what they're rated for.

If the truck isn't telling you what is safe, and you need a number to be sure, then you need to stick to the data tags and maybe less. If you are comfortable with how the truck is performing, comfortable with the traffic around you, and are lucky enough to live in a relaxed part of the country where pushy drivers don't pass slow trucks, then fear not about what the truck can handle. You'll chicken out before it does.


More directly to the original post, and the conservative ratings for the military's purposes, these trucks are rated for on-road and off-road. Someone (Perhaps David Doyle?) summed this up very well. The conditions in question were off-road, which constituted anything that a soldier could make the truck go through. On-road simply meant somebody drove a buldozer through the woods. Our modern system of roadways was not at all what they envisioned.
 
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website like our supporting vendors. Their ads help keep Steel Soldiers going. Please consider disabling your ad blockers for the site. Thanks!

I've Disabled AdBlock
No Thanks