Crank but no start m1009 need advice

[phocks]

Hello as the title states I need some help.

84 M1009 cranks with small amount of white smoke coming out of tail pipes (dual exhaust installed when it ran). Once in awhile it kicks out a bunch of black/brown smoke and sounds like it wants to start but less than a second later it stops. Wait light is staying on longer than it used to, I'm getting a clunk sound from the new glow plug relay BWD S603. Also put in a new glow plug controller card and have done the doghead relay. I have also put in new glow plugs, 60Gs. Batteries are testing at 100% with the charger. i ordered a new 24v starter before pulling the old starter off (mistake) to get it tested, was broken, and it was a 12v so the previous owner had to have converted the started system from the original 24v. so i got another 12v starter, its pretty heavy so i think its direct drive. Its big but it fit with no problem, came with with shims and be sure to wire the ignition to the "S" terminal. I'm still using the original stanadyne 80 fuel filter base, also put a new filter on, no leaks all dry.


the problems started with hard starting, i did the spin on fuel filter mod and then it wouldn't start at all. put it back to how it was and kept not starting at all. then one by one starting replacing parts and reading more and more after each unsuccessful attempt.
it hasnt been run for about 5 weeks at this point.

Thanks for any help



RESOLVED 2017/02/25
i took it to a shop a couple weeks ago, i considered seppuku but it needed to be done, and got it back a few days ago. the problem was the red power wire from the bus bar to the glow plug rely was bad. worked off and on so they replaced it and my truck starts great every time now, even after it sitting overnight. until next time boys peace

 

[cucvrus]

I am so confused with your situation. I would start at the beginning and check all the glow plugs. I would remove all 8 glow plugs because it will help you with the next step. open the bleeder on top of the filter and crank it over till you have fuel at the filter. Next open / loosen the fuel lines at the delivery nozzles and crank it over till you have fuel there. it will make the nuts wet under pressure. Assuming all glow plugs are good. Install the glow plugs. Check and see if you have voltage coming to the glow plugs with a test light. Attempt to start it in the normal way. Report back on the results. I have all of mine hooked up as stock no modifications or bypasses but that should work for you. That is how I resurrect the dead ones I get in my shop. Good Luck. Please report back.

 

[phocks]

Ok so I started with the test light on my glow plugs and nothing with the key on. Also the wait light and red light next to it aren't coming on anymore

 

[phocks]

Was just a blown fuse for the wait light. Put the test light on the relay on firewall, no power from large red wire on top, power on light blue wire after the clunk, power to thin red wire with black stripe (ignition wire I believe), and nothing on the orange wires

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

Trace the large red wire back. It should have power. Do you still have the resistor bank? Or has that been bypassed?

Also, I am a bit uneasy about your starter situation. I don't think you can be certain it's been converted to 12v just because the PO had a 12v starter in it. People do stupid things.

Pics of your wiring would help.

 

[phocks]

Update: there's power to all the wires attached to the GP relay on the firewall except all three orange ones sharing the bottom post. the thin one im not sure what it is and the two thicker ones I've discovered are the glow plug wires spooled together, 4 from each side make each one. Now those seem to need power to get the plugs hot so back to reading. I blew a couple more 20amp fuses with the key on poking around with the test light trying to get some essay on whats going on in the colorful wire nest. I'll upload some photos next weekend when I'm physically with the truck.

The resistors are nowhere to be found, quite a surprise seeing pictures with them right behind the air filter and mine never having them.

I installed the 24v starter just to see what would happen and when cranking it sounded sad is the best way to say it haha. It sounded like it wanted more power is all I can say.

I'll post updates, hopefully successful here soon for someone else to learn from. Thanks for patience and tips. In the mean time ill keep throwing parts at it until I the find the solution hidden on here somewhere

 

[sandcobra164]

You're truck was converted to 12V by the previous owner, that's why it had a regular 12V starter. On my truck, the only thing left is 24V is the starter and the second alternator. White smoke out of the exhaust indicates fuel is making it to the cylinders but not getting hot enough to combust. Don't open the fuel system at this point. Disconnect the glowplugs for this experiment. Have an assistant spray some ether towards the air cleaner opening once it's cranking over. If it cranks and runs, you just need to keep after the glow plug power issue. Many people bypass the glowplug controller and install a momentary switch to control the relay, also know as "push button" control. It's not ideal but parts for these trucks are somewhat hard to come by. For what it's worth, my M1028 starts fine in 17 degree weather which is about as low as we get to in SouthWest Georgia.

 

[phocks]

I'm familiar with the push button set-up but trying to avoid it. Any idea on how to make it work using the "stock" setup?

 

[Tinstar]

Have you replaced the GP temp sensor?

 

[phocks]

I have a new sensor on order I'll be picking it up when the weekend comes around. Sensor BWD WT3000 and connector BWD PT191

 

[phocks]

NO POWER TO PLUGS STILL!! Here's pics as promised. i attached the GP relay and tried to start, nothing. There was metal on metal from the bracket of the relay to the firewall, could that break the relay? Since the realization i have put a rubber washers on and wrapped the screw in electrical tape to totally insulate(?) the relay form everything else. Also when test lighting everything when i checked the blue wire and the light came on and the relay would clunk each time i took it on and off, a couple times in short succession to believe it. So am I manually "grounding" it with the test light? i thought i was so i used another test light to see if the plugs/bottom terminal was getting power, they weren't. What the heck is going on, all the pieces are there, is a part broken is something not wired right?

new thermo stat, connected the original yellow wire to the b terminal on the pigtail.
new ST85 relay possibly shorted it out or something
new glow plug controller card
new 60G plugs
doghead relay
new starter
12v conversion by previous owner could be done incorrectly?


Also what is that blade terminal for on the engine block drivers side forward of spark plug in the picture




any help is greatly appreciated!

 

[cucvrus]

I am thinking the incorrect relay. You should be able to mount that on steel and it should work fine. They make many relays. Some must be isolated other not. You need one that is not isolated. I can't help you. I have all stock CUCV's and I know nothing of this conversion. Good Luck. Someone else may chime in and get you going.

 

[antennaclimber]

If you have a NAPA ST85 relay, it can be mounted directly to the firewall without any isolation.

It looks like the vehicle has been converted to 12 volt operation. Using a good ground location (I usually use the ground stud on the drivers side alternator) measure and test the following using a voltmeter:

Measure the voltage at both the battery + terminal and the top of the relay, it should be the same.

Disconnect the light Blue wire from the relay and make sure it is not touching anything.

With the key in the RUN position, measure the voltage on the small pink wire at the relay, it should have 12 volts.

Move your voltmeter + to the lower side of the relay that has the Orange wires on it.

Take a wire and connect the relay terminal that had the light Blue wire on it to a good ground location. A test jumper wire with clips leads is preferred.

You should hear the relay close and see voltage on the Orange wires to the glow plugs when you connect the test wire to ground.

If the relay closes and you see an acceptable voltage on the Orange wires, we can assume that the relay is functioning.

Remove test jumper from the relay after 15-20 seconds and try to start the truck.

Report back with results.

 

[Tinstar]

That wire goes to the water temp light.
It's there just forward of the fuel injector in your pic.
Diesels do not have spark plugs.

 

[Tinstar]

Are you going to return truck back to stock?

Resitiors can be found used for good prices and easily reinstalled.
New ones are non existent
These trucks start great all stock when properly maintained.
Mine starts easy, all the way down to -3 degrees no sweat.

Your finding out the downside of someone else's conversion.
You don't know exactly what was done. Not yet anyway.

Hang in there. The 12v conversion experts will get you lined out.

Good luck.

 

[phocks]

haha first time using a voltmeter and it breaks (top center resistor i think its called is fried), classic . i got through some tests though.
battery and top relay terminal read the same.
pink wire had 12 volts.
i used negative jumper cable from the negative post on rear battery to the blue wire terminal, it clicked. went to test the orange wires and the dial went backwards on the scale then stopped working. went to replicate the result and then the meter stopped working altogether.

on my way to get another volt meter

 

[antennaclimber]

Please use a good known engine or chassis point for ground during testing and voltage measurements.

 

[phocks]

ok using the grounding stud on the alternator i'm getting 0.00 at the glow plug terminal

 

[antennaclimber]

Do you have 12 volts on the top terminal of the GP relay?

With the relay closed, do you have 12 volts on the bottom terminal of the GP relay with the Orange wires?

 

[phocks]

open relay (pre-clunk) top terminal has 12v

closed relay (post clunk) bottom relay reads -12v

i must have been using the volt meter wrong because power to the plugs came as a surprise.
****it.


i think cucvrus might have been right all along. just pulled all 8 plugs and one was dry with no carbon while the others were wet and had carbon. ill continue to do the other steps and post results.