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CTIS 5 flashing lights

Keith Knight

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I'll start by referencing an old thread "CTIS 5 flashing lights,No air leaks, no mechanical faults" I posted on that thread a couple months ago but unfortunately didn't get any responses. Probably because everyone that originally were responding to that thread 8 years ago are no longer active. I wish these older threads that haven't seen any action in say a year would show up like a new thread so everyone would get an email notification and get the opportunity for fresh eyes to look at the problems.

I will try to keep it short by saying I've been working on this problem for some time now.
Working on a 2003 M1078A1 with the M1079 van body on it.
After years of it working perfectly and 6 months on the road full time traveling 12-13,000 miles. One morning I got 5 flashing lights.
I know, major air leak is typically the problem. While on the road I did some simple trouble shooting by removing the output airline from port C on the Pneumatic Control Unit (PCU) and applying shop air to the lines to locate the leak. After looking and listening and spraying soapy water everywhere no leak found and I decided it would have to wait till I get home to my shop to do further trouble shooting.
Knowing the age of the vehicle and after traveling a total of over 14,000 miles, I decided to order all new CTIS seals and hub seals to rebuild all the hubs. Also I have new Aluminum wheels with freshly rebuilt CTIS wheel valves ready to go. The other night I finished rebuilding the hubs and installing the new wheels. Time to crank it up and test it!!!! I was so happy the CTIS came alive and worked perfectly. The next day I realized I had the low pressure transducer switched on. Again cranked it up switched to the high pressure transducer and the CTIS worked perfectly airing the tires up to 85psi. Next morning I go to take it for a long test drive to check hub temperatures and the CTIS is back to its old problems, 5 lights flashing. After trouble shooting everything possible with out the ability to connect with a computer to get trouble codes. I'm currently at a dead end. With a cap on the PCU output port C, on start up the CTIS highway mode light blinks a few times as its doing its sampling then the highway light stays on solid as normal. While trying to find an air leak I was isolating the leak potential by removing the rear air supply line to the Quick Release Valve (CRV) and capping it off. Still had the 5 flashing lights so I removed the front air supply line from the front CRV and capped it off. Still no luck 5 flashing lights, so the air leak must be at the bulkhead fitting or where the line splits and goes front to rear. I applied 120psi shop air to the output line from the PCU, sprayed soapy water test and NO leaks anywhere. Reconnected the air line to port C on the PCU with the front and rear lines capped off just before they go into the QRValves still 5 flashing lights, put the cap back on port C and works normally add 20-30 of air line with no leaks and 5 flashing lights. What gives??? Im about to pull the PCU, pull it apart clean, lube, reassemble and see if it changes anything.
 

Wingnut13

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That PCU does come apart quite easily. I think I posted some pictures of mine when I was cleaning and fixing. What a frustrating experience. Good luck finding the culprit.
 

Skyhawk13205

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I find that troubleshooting CTIS is very hard without using a data reader, you can try to use blink codes but the best is to use a data reader. I had to use a prolink with a road ranger TMS cartridge. You can tell the ECU to inflate and deflate to find leaks.

this was my error code with 5 flashing lights. It was due to water getting into my CTIS and, after I warmed my truck and changed the air dryer my CTIS works well in cold temps. I usually use the CTIS off switch in cold temps till I drive for about 15 min to warm the hubs up.
 

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aw113sgte

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Curious to find out what the problem is. I had some strange issues with mine and went down a similar course. Ended up with two issues, front CTIS pressure line to the hubs were porus and leaking through the hose itself and also a faulty relief valve on pcu.
 

Ronmar

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Leaks can be sneaky. Pressurizing by applying air to the line coming out of the PCU, then sealing that line is as good as any other way to pressurize the system. It of course takes the PCU out of the equation so does not test its ability to hold air as required… When looking for leaks don’t forget to check the horns on the dump valves. Any air coming out of there indicates a leak between PCU and the dump and it is letting tire air escape to match the dropping pressure on the PCU side of the dump valves. Also check the axle breather lines as that is where any leaking hub seal air will ultimately flow to…
 

Lostchain

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There are 9 codes in the Dana manual associated with a 5 blinking lights condition. The most efficient course of action is to ask the computer what it thinks is wrong with the system. Tearing the system apart and firing the parts cannon is less efficient. Please share the codes when your reader shows up.
 

Keith Knight

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Leaks can be sneaky. Pressurizing by applying air to the line coming out of the PCU, then sealing that line is as good as any other way to pressurize the system. It of course takes the PCU out of the equation so does not test its ability to hold air as required… When looking for leaks don’t forget to check the horns on the dump valves. Any air coming out of there indicates a leak between PCU and the dump and it is letting tire air escape to match the dropping pressure on the PCU side of the dump valves. Also check the axle breather lines as that is where any leaking hub seal air will ultimately flow to…
I’ve eliminated the possibility of the dump valves and everything beyond them by capping the lines off just before they enter the dump valves/ Quick Release Valves (QRV).
 

Ronmar

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Yes, but what the dump valves are doing can help point you in a direction. If you give it a shot of air and seal it, a sealed system should be able to set indefinitely. If they are venting air, you are leaking air upstream toward the PCU and the dumps are releasing tire air to match the pressure decrease from the leak… same with jumping the control solenoid on and briefly jumping supply to give a shot of air. The PCU should hold the system pressurized until you release the control solenoid. If you have air coming out the dump vent ports, the PCU is probably leaking back…
 

Keith Knight

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Yes, but what the dump valves are doing can help point you in a direction. If you give it a shot of air and seal it, a sealed system should be able to set indefinitely. If they are venting air, you are leaking air upstream toward the PCU and the dumps are releasing tire air to match the pressure decrease from the leak… same with jumping the control solenoid on and briefly jumping supply to give a shot of air. The PCU should hold the system pressurized until you release the control solenoid. If you have air coming out the dump vent ports, the PCU is probably leaking back…
I started by pressurizing the whole system at the PCU port C, when I couldn’t find any leaks I decided to start eliminating sections by capping off the outputs on the dump valves rear first then front still no leaks brought me to where I am currently.
 

Keith Knight

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So the latest test was a leak down test. With the air lines capped off just before each of the Quick Release Valves I installed a valve stem on the output line from the PCU. Applied 110 psi to the line 5 minutes later it’s still 110 psi. Absolutely no leaks possible but when it’s connected to the PCU 5 flashing lights. Put a cap on port C and works properly.
20 minutes later 110psi.
 
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Keith Knight

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Yes, I actually printed it out. I’m old school and like turning pages. My challenge is going to be using the software. 🤣
 

Ronmar

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Well if it isnt leaking anywhere, then it is probably a pressure sensor, wiring or the controller feeding its 5v reference... or of course the controller itself...
 

hike

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I may not understand the CTIS operation, nor the pnuematic issues well. Though perhaps the issue is between the supply tank and PCU, not between PCU and tires?
 
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