richingalveston
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still got my 6.2 available. lots of new parts. very cheap
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CUCV 1986 M1008 - In a Real Pickle - Bad Heads - Need Advice
- Thread starter Commander5993
- Start date
- 806
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Ok... its been a few months, been really busy these past several months, and been working on... everything it seems 
anyway, finally got the truck in the garage about a week ago, removed intake, water pump, timing cover etc etc and found what happened this last time the truck died.
It was the combination of several issues:
First, on the top drive gear that bolts to the IP, one bolt had come out and sheared off, another bolt had backed out about 1/2", finished taking it out by hand. The 3rd bolt was still tight enough I had to use a wrench to get it out.
The second thing that happened, was the center bolt (which holds both the lower drive gear for the IP and also the cam timing gear) was loose and backing out, just finished taking it out by hand. What ever kid in motor depot that worked on this engine, did not use any lock-tight and also didn't even bother to torque the bolts down... or maybe didn't' tighten them at all...
After pulling the lower drive gear on the cam for the IP, I found that the woodruff key on the camshaft had sheared off the front 1/3 "top" part of the key. Which when that happened, there was nothing to turn the lower IP drive gear, and obviously the IP stopped turning therefore that shutoff the fuel going to the injectors which is why the engine died instantly. At least the back 2/3's of the key was still holding the cam timing gear, as I think I've read that these are an interference engine...?
The bolt that had sheered was caught inside one of the holes on the IP drive gear, so at least it didn't get down into the timing chain or something. Both IP gears look perfect, no chipped or broken teeth. Also the cam timing gear and crankshaft timing gear look perfect also, and the timing chain seems to be in good shape and not stretched.
So, i bought a new key for the camshaft, all new bolts for the IP gear. Pulled the old key out, installed the new one. Put the timing gears and chain back, all aligned.
Aligned and Reinstalled the IP gears, put lock-tight on all bolts, tighten to spec, etc etc.
Got all the IP lines reconnected and etc, and then started trying to bleed the fuel system and found that the starter was grinding. So tried shims at first, several different thicknesses, no good. Pulled starter and found the gear had worn down ridiculously, as that was a wilson $250 starter that we had installed about 2 years ago (which the truck has sat two different times for nearly 6 months each time during the last 2 years) and of course it only had a 12 month warranty...In any case, I had my original starter that I took off last time, which I had already had it rebuilt, put back in the box sitting on the shelf. So I took that, put it on, starter issues fixed, no more noise.
So with the starter now working, we've spent the better part of the last 3 days just trying to bleed the fuel system.
However, we can not get even a drip out the injector lines.
When cranking the engine over the lift pump (which is a new AC delco [with the correct 'black' lever] that I installed when I re-did the heads last year but haven't been able to drive it much since) will bleed the air from the filter through the vent until there is a clear stream of fuel.
Once that is done, we were able to bleed the line from the filter to the IP. I finally replaced the return hose which comes out of the "top" of the IP with a clear hose, and found fuel was coming out the IP to the return line.
But we have cranked and cranked for the last several days and got nothing out the injectors. Nor is there any spray out of the GP holes (as the glow plugs are removed).
So.... does this show that the IP has went bad and won't prime?
Could it have gotten damaged someway when the one bolt on the IP drive gear broke?
Or did the IP just go bad because the truck has been sitting for these past few months?
I don't know what to do really going forward. I know the first time after I replaced the heads, we had a hard time priming the fuel system then too. The service manual makes it sound like an easy 5 min job... but I've ran the truck batteries down (to where it was cranking slow) numerous times now.
I'm aggravated enough with it to the point that I'm considering buying a rebuilt IP, converting the truck to a spin on fuel filter w/water drain (as I'm sick of messing with the box filter and its base any more, don't know if its still leaking air someway or what, even after removing that sensor and filling in the hole last time), and adding an electric pump before the mechanical lift pump to help with bleeding.
**IF** the IP is good, and it just takes this amount of work and time just to bleed the fuel system... then this is just ridiculous.
anyway, finally got the truck in the garage about a week ago, removed intake, water pump, timing cover etc etc and found what happened this last time the truck died.
It was the combination of several issues:
First, on the top drive gear that bolts to the IP, one bolt had come out and sheared off, another bolt had backed out about 1/2", finished taking it out by hand. The 3rd bolt was still tight enough I had to use a wrench to get it out.
The second thing that happened, was the center bolt (which holds both the lower drive gear for the IP and also the cam timing gear) was loose and backing out, just finished taking it out by hand. What ever kid in motor depot that worked on this engine, did not use any lock-tight and also didn't even bother to torque the bolts down... or maybe didn't' tighten them at all...
After pulling the lower drive gear on the cam for the IP, I found that the woodruff key on the camshaft had sheared off the front 1/3 "top" part of the key. Which when that happened, there was nothing to turn the lower IP drive gear, and obviously the IP stopped turning therefore that shutoff the fuel going to the injectors which is why the engine died instantly. At least the back 2/3's of the key was still holding the cam timing gear, as I think I've read that these are an interference engine...?
The bolt that had sheered was caught inside one of the holes on the IP drive gear, so at least it didn't get down into the timing chain or something. Both IP gears look perfect, no chipped or broken teeth. Also the cam timing gear and crankshaft timing gear look perfect also, and the timing chain seems to be in good shape and not stretched.
So, i bought a new key for the camshaft, all new bolts for the IP gear. Pulled the old key out, installed the new one. Put the timing gears and chain back, all aligned.
Aligned and Reinstalled the IP gears, put lock-tight on all bolts, tighten to spec, etc etc.
Got all the IP lines reconnected and etc, and then started trying to bleed the fuel system and found that the starter was grinding. So tried shims at first, several different thicknesses, no good. Pulled starter and found the gear had worn down ridiculously, as that was a wilson $250 starter that we had installed about 2 years ago (which the truck has sat two different times for nearly 6 months each time during the last 2 years) and of course it only had a 12 month warranty...In any case, I had my original starter that I took off last time, which I had already had it rebuilt, put back in the box sitting on the shelf. So I took that, put it on, starter issues fixed, no more noise.
So with the starter now working, we've spent the better part of the last 3 days just trying to bleed the fuel system.
However, we can not get even a drip out the injector lines.
When cranking the engine over the lift pump (which is a new AC delco [with the correct 'black' lever] that I installed when I re-did the heads last year but haven't been able to drive it much since) will bleed the air from the filter through the vent until there is a clear stream of fuel.
Once that is done, we were able to bleed the line from the filter to the IP. I finally replaced the return hose which comes out of the "top" of the IP with a clear hose, and found fuel was coming out the IP to the return line.
But we have cranked and cranked for the last several days and got nothing out the injectors. Nor is there any spray out of the GP holes (as the glow plugs are removed).
So.... does this show that the IP has went bad and won't prime?
Could it have gotten damaged someway when the one bolt on the IP drive gear broke?
Or did the IP just go bad because the truck has been sitting for these past few months?
I don't know what to do really going forward. I know the first time after I replaced the heads, we had a hard time priming the fuel system then too. The service manual makes it sound like an easy 5 min job... but I've ran the truck batteries down (to where it was cranking slow) numerous times now.
I'm aggravated enough with it to the point that I'm considering buying a rebuilt IP, converting the truck to a spin on fuel filter w/water drain (as I'm sick of messing with the box filter and its base any more, don't know if its still leaking air someway or what, even after removing that sensor and filling in the hole last time), and adding an electric pump before the mechanical lift pump to help with bleeding.
**IF** the IP is good, and it just takes this amount of work and time just to bleed the fuel system... then this is just ridiculous.
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rsh4364
Active member
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I replaced my ip last fall with a rebuilt unit , bleeding lines didnt take long at all. 4-5 10 seconds of cranking with a starter cool down in between and I was good. My guess is the IP has an issue, if you have fuel to ip and from ip but none to the injectors.
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Was hoping that it wasn't the IP, but thats what I figured was wrong.
Guess I'm going to have to find a good rebuilt one.
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Found what I thought was a brand new Delphi IP ( #EX631058 ) on Amazon, as it had no core charge. But from what I've found else where, its apparently a rebuilt unit.
It looks like the exact same pump, and its listed to fit GMC 82' - 86' 6.2l engine.
Its $590 which is still expensive, but thats better than some I've seen.
EDIT: Found it on Rockauto for $397 + $112 core.
Anyone used one of these before??
Is there a better Injector Pump?
here is the link to the delphi:
https://goo.gl/d7819j
It looks like the exact same pump, and its listed to fit GMC 82' - 86' 6.2l engine.
Its $590 which is still expensive, but thats better than some I've seen.
EDIT: Found it on Rockauto for $397 + $112 core.
Anyone used one of these before??
Is there a better Injector Pump?
here is the link to the delphi:
https://goo.gl/d7819j
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Since the Delphi turned out to be rebuilt like everyone elses, I started looking at Oregon Fuel Injection since it seems a lot of people here have used them with good success.
Was also looking at Huckstorf Diesel, which seems like a good company, but haven't found much reviews about them.
The number on the data plate on my IP is DB2829-4521
I believe this is supposed to be the "stock" cucv IP number, but I also know that other model numbers work too. Just don't know which one's, or what the difference is.
I think I'm going to contact Oregon FI and see what they say.
Was also looking at Huckstorf Diesel, which seems like a good company, but haven't found much reviews about them.
The number on the data plate on my IP is DB2829-4521
I believe this is supposed to be the "stock" cucv IP number, but I also know that other model numbers work too. Just don't know which one's, or what the difference is.
I think I'm going to contact Oregon FI and see what they say.
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spoke with Mark at Oregon Fuel Injection, he told me that this pump number (DB2829-4521) was designed to be able to also run jet fuel as well as Diesel besides some other fuel mixes.
However, because it was designed to run jet fuel, it was built with hardened parts, which he said reduces its lifespan to about 20,000 miles.
In comparison to another model (I think he said the 4510), which was only made to run Diesel, but has an average lifespan of about 100,000 miles.
With that said, he also told me that they won't know if the core is worn too far to rebuild, or at least if some of the parts are worn and have to be replaced, until they tear it open and inspect it.
So I guess I'm going to send this IP to them first so they can inspect it, and find out if I will be able to get the full core return or not. In either case, I still have to have an IP.
Might box it up tonight and ship it out tomorrow.
Don't know if there is a specific IP number that is better than another. I know I've read that some meter out more fuel etc, just not sure which or if it would be worth it or etc.
If anyone has some input, information, or opinions on any of this, it would be Greatly Appreciated
However, because it was designed to run jet fuel, it was built with hardened parts, which he said reduces its lifespan to about 20,000 miles.
In comparison to another model (I think he said the 4510), which was only made to run Diesel, but has an average lifespan of about 100,000 miles.
With that said, he also told me that they won't know if the core is worn too far to rebuild, or at least if some of the parts are worn and have to be replaced, until they tear it open and inspect it.
So I guess I'm going to send this IP to them first so they can inspect it, and find out if I will be able to get the full core return or not. In either case, I still have to have an IP.
Might box it up tonight and ship it out tomorrow.
Don't know if there is a specific IP number that is better than another. I know I've read that some meter out more fuel etc, just not sure which or if it would be worth it or etc.
If anyone has some input, information, or opinions on any of this, it would be Greatly Appreciated
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rsh4364
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I had DCP out of Memphis rebuild mine. $ 274.90 free shipping.
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Hi Rsh4364
Yeah, I've heard about them too, but i've also seen a lot of complaints as well. Seems like people either like them or hate them. Even saw one guy who said he sued them over a set of injectors he had bought from them for a newer model ford I believe it was. So I wasn't to sure about them.
rsh4364
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I read the reviews and ratings and saw nothing negative relating to the 6.2 diesel, and went with them. Been 6-7 months still happy. I do run a little stanadyne lubricant with fill ups.
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Yeah, Mark at Oregon Fuel Injection mentioned the Stanadyne additive too. I know I've read a little about it before from other people here on SS. Guess I need to find some too.
cucvrus
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I have used Diesel Care out of Memphis for the past 20 years. No negative results. A few people bought CUCV's from me and are driving around in them with the Diesel Care pumps. No complaints that I heard of yet. And if you have to sue someone over a set of delivery nozzles you need a life. Really not much gain in that suit. Most parts are fine for the intended use. But many parts are used beyond the intended use and fail or under perform then people blame the parts. Most cases error on the user or installer. I watched a guy hammer ball joints in place with a sledge. They never seated properly and he said it was because they were made in China. I zipped it up and walked away. Same as U joints and hammers. I see the bolts fell out of the pump on your engine. I would proceed to remove the entire front and pan from that engine before I was confident to put it back together and on the road. 1 small piece can spell disaster for that engine. Gears do NOT like metal mashed between them. Good Luck. lets hope it holds up better this time. No short cuts.
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Before you pull it, are you sure the fuel shut off selnoid is working? Put 12 volts to the terminal where the big pink wire connects and see if there is a clicking sound. If not its cheaper to replace it than the whole pump. Also make sure you are getting 12 volts from the pink wire.
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Hello Again Cucvrus!
Yeah, the guy on the injectors that sued DCP, I don't know the whole story. But it was on a newer (2016??) truck, apparently the injectors cost several grand, I think somewhere between $6 to $800 each (maybe more?). He bought a whole set from DCP and had a dealership to do the work which cost a bunch, and then after reassembled 2 of them turned out to be bad, so he had to buy 2 more from DCP and have the dealer to tear it back down to change them out. And then DCP didn't want to refund for the 2 bad one's that he sent back or whatever. I don't know who's fault it really was in this case, or what exactly was the issue.
DCP might be fine, maybe just got a bad rap. Glad you haven't had any issues with them.
Anyway, you are right about many problems coming from those installing parts wrong rather than the part itself being faulty in many cases. I've worked several jobs in some automotive industry in the past, and yes I've seen a lot of things that people did that you just shake your head and walk away. Its no wonder there is so many wrecks these days... On the flip side, I've also seen some of the things that dealerships and other paper-certified "mechanics" have done to people which is worse... thats why I'd rather do all my own work if possible.
Going back to our truck, there was only one bolt that sheered off on the top IP drive gear, but we found both halves of it. Then one other on that same pulley was loose, then the single bolt on the camshaft was loose, took those out by hand but they were all there. Cam bolt was perfect, nothing wrong with it. I went ahead and replaced all 3 of the bolts in the IP gear.
Nothing got down into the timing chain and gears, Thank Yahuah. We did take off everything on the front of the engine, checked all gears, chain, etc, everything looks good, no chipped teeth or anything, not even any marks. Put the chain and timing gears back on, they all still appear to be fairly new, still tight within spec.
*If* there was any possible shard or small piece that went into the oil pan, it should just stick to the magnet on the oil plug. I did use a magnet and went "fishing" in the oil pan after I dropped the new camshaft key down in it, I found it and I also found the one washer that was missing off the bolt that sheared. So that was the only piece that was unaccounted for, but we found it.
Hopefully we can get a good IP and get this truck back up and running in a week or two. Depending on how long shipping takes.
Thanks for the Reply!!
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Hello again Ken
I actually already shipped out the IP yesterday, but before we took it off, one of the first things I checked was the shutoff solenoid. I tested it on the truck first, and later even took it out and bench tested it, and also made sure the little lever it pushed on inside the IP moved freely and wasn't stuck or anything. So unfortunately it wasn't the cheap easy fix.
Thanks for the Reply!
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Ok, heard back from Oregon Fuel Injection today, they received my "core" IP this morning, tore it apart etc.
They said that the pump was seized and the shaft was broke, therefore it can't be used as a core because it is not rebuildable.
So if I buy a rebuilt IP from them, its going to cost me an extra $300 for not having a rebuildable core, which would make it over $800 for an IP. 
It already cost me $40+ just to ship that thing out there... don't see a reason at the moment to pay them to ship it back, as I won't be able to use it as a core any place else either. Unless I was able to find the parts thats broken...??
First and foremost though, the prices on these things are just ridiculous in my opinion, its just a mechanical fuel pump.
<- 2 cents needs to be adjusted for inflation to at least $2
Someone here on SS needs to learn how to do a quality rebuild on these IP's at a reasonable price and start a new business...
They said that the pump was seized and the shaft was broke, therefore it can't be used as a core because it is not rebuildable.
So if I buy a rebuilt IP from them, its going to cost me an extra $300 for not having a rebuildable core, which would make it over $800 for an IP.
It already cost me $40+ just to ship that thing out there... don't see a reason at the moment to pay them to ship it back, as I won't be able to use it as a core any place else either. Unless I was able to find the parts thats broken...??
First and foremost though, the prices on these things are just ridiculous in my opinion, its just a mechanical fuel pump.
<- 2 cents needs to be adjusted for inflation to at least $2 Someone here on SS needs to learn how to do a quality rebuild on these IP's at a reasonable price and start a new business...
ridenby
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They would have to price the same or more.
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I have used Pensacola Diesel many times. Both for pumps, injectors and small parts. They have a rebuilt pump for $395. Their core charge is only $150. I have two of their pumps and a one set of their injectors. I'm very pleased with their work. Maybe they can save you some money.
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I was just looking at an ebay ad of theirs and DCP yesterday evening.
Wish I would have went with one of them to start with.....
In either case, looks like Pensacola Diesel or DCP would both be about $550 including the core charge. Much better than OFI...
I've emailed both of them, see what they reply back.
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EDIT: Well never got any reply from DCP, but Pensacola Diesel said that if the pump is seized then they can't accept it as a core, which is what I expected.
I think I'll just buy a rebuilt IP from them later tonight, and then pay the core charge. At least they only charge $150 for a core instead of $300.
As thats all I can really do at this point if I want to get this truck running again, which we really need as it the only vehicle we have thats ours. A friend of ours is in the process of moving here from up north, and had stored a 94' suburban here and he let us drive it or we wouldn't have had anything. Really thankful for that. But we've got to get our truck fixed one way or another.
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**UPDATE:
Its been a few weeks since I've made a post, just been pitching and catching, and also continuing to deal with health issues.
In any case, I got the replacement IP we ordered from Pensacola Diesel over 2 weeks ago, as well as a whole set of rebuilt injectors. The injectors on the truck were still working, but $130 for a set of 8 rebuilt and tested injectors and a little peace of mind, it wasn't a bad price and at least I won't have to do it later.
(EDIT: OH and I forgot to say that Pensacola diesel has apparently accepted my old IP for a core! I thought I would end up paying core price, but I sent it to them just to see, and have never heard anything from them, so apparently they accepted it for a core.
So not only did they have a better price than Oregon Diesel, and they had a better core charge than OD, but they apparently accepted my core too
)
Got it all installed, easily bled the fuel system this time, just a few cranks and we had diesel spray from the open glow plug holes. Sent off the old IP to see if they will accept it as a core, and we will keep the old injectors as spares.
Finished buttoning up everything, truck started right up, ran a little rough for 20 to 30 seconds or so as the final air bled from the fuel lines and injectors.
After which it has run smooth, and it is much quieter than before.
Ever since we bought this truck 6 years ago, the engine has had a high pitch chatter so to speak. I even made a post and asked SS members if it was "normal" or the sign that something was wrong before I bought it, of course its very hard to "describe" noises sometimes, and it's harder still for people to correctly comment about the "description" of engine noises without actually hearing it. In any case, at first I wasn't sure, still bought the truck... but as time went on, the high pitch chatter was not only very annoying and hard to talk over inside the cab, but also seemed to get a little worse (louder) over time. The thing was is that it sounded like it was coming from inside the block... But apparently it was actually the IP making all the noise, as again now after replacing the IP all the high pitch chatter is gone.
So the truck is running again... finally... but I have a couple new small issues...
When performing the final reassembly of everything, I found I had a serious misalignment on the belts. The power steering pump pulley, and BOTH alternator pulleys were way off and I honestly don't know why. If they had been like that since I redone the heads I'm not sure.
I had to space out the power steering pump, and the drivers side alternator. The passengers side alternator was harder, and I ended up managing to break the ear off the passenger side alternator when I was trying to get the belt to align. I fixed it temporarily with some aluminum brazing rods. But I found a replacement alternator half case on ebay and bought it, just got it switched out today. After getting the alternator back together, and reinstalled, I fired the truck back up and found that the gauge was showing that the batteries were being overcharged... now I know these aren't the best gauges, so I pulled out my voltage tester and put the leads on both batteries while the truck was running... it showed 31.7 volts !!!
I am guessing it should be around... 26 to 28 volts??
Did I wire the alternator up wrong when I reinstalled it??? I've since took the wires back off, and tried to verify their position, reinstalled it all, but still shows its over charging.....
I will add that I did change the brushes out in the alternator. A friend had looked at it when I was trying to repair the case, and had stated that the brushes were wore way down. I looked at them, they didn't look too bad to me, but I had no new brushes to compare them too. So I bought some brushes, and installed them today. The new brushes was only about 1/4" longer than the old one's... in any case, I don't think I screwed up anything inside the alternator, as all I removed was the brush holder with brushes, and the 3 little screws that held it in.
The other little issue I've had is the temp light under the speedometer (circled in photo below) stays on...
A few days ago I started the truck up and noticed that the light wouldn't go out, I revved the engine a few times and it went out and didn't come back on. Thought at first maybe some air was still in the cooling system.
But then a couple days later, I started the truck again, and the light was back on. I had already ordered a new sensor (the one on the radiator) so I changed the sensor out, but no change, the light just stays on.... never did that before...
Anyway, thats my current update.
As Always, any input is Much Appreciated!
Thanks
Its been a few weeks since I've made a post, just been pitching and catching, and also continuing to deal with health issues.
In any case, I got the replacement IP we ordered from Pensacola Diesel over 2 weeks ago, as well as a whole set of rebuilt injectors. The injectors on the truck were still working, but $130 for a set of 8 rebuilt and tested injectors and a little peace of mind, it wasn't a bad price and at least I won't have to do it later.
(EDIT: OH and I forgot to say that Pensacola diesel has apparently accepted my old IP for a core! I thought I would end up paying core price, but I sent it to them just to see, and have never heard anything from them, so apparently they accepted it for a core.
So not only did they have a better price than Oregon Diesel, and they had a better core charge than OD, but they apparently accepted my core too
)Got it all installed, easily bled the fuel system this time, just a few cranks and we had diesel spray from the open glow plug holes. Sent off the old IP to see if they will accept it as a core, and we will keep the old injectors as spares.
Finished buttoning up everything, truck started right up, ran a little rough for 20 to 30 seconds or so as the final air bled from the fuel lines and injectors.
After which it has run smooth, and it is much quieter than before.
Ever since we bought this truck 6 years ago, the engine has had a high pitch chatter so to speak. I even made a post and asked SS members if it was "normal" or the sign that something was wrong before I bought it, of course its very hard to "describe" noises sometimes, and it's harder still for people to correctly comment about the "description" of engine noises without actually hearing it. In any case, at first I wasn't sure, still bought the truck... but as time went on, the high pitch chatter was not only very annoying and hard to talk over inside the cab, but also seemed to get a little worse (louder) over time. The thing was is that it sounded like it was coming from inside the block... But apparently it was actually the IP making all the noise, as again now after replacing the IP all the high pitch chatter is gone.
So the truck is running again... finally... but I have a couple new small issues...
When performing the final reassembly of everything, I found I had a serious misalignment on the belts. The power steering pump pulley, and BOTH alternator pulleys were way off and I honestly don't know why. If they had been like that since I redone the heads I'm not sure.
I had to space out the power steering pump, and the drivers side alternator. The passengers side alternator was harder, and I ended up managing to break the ear off the passenger side alternator when I was trying to get the belt to align. I fixed it temporarily with some aluminum brazing rods. But I found a replacement alternator half case on ebay and bought it, just got it switched out today. After getting the alternator back together, and reinstalled, I fired the truck back up and found that the gauge was showing that the batteries were being overcharged... now I know these aren't the best gauges, so I pulled out my voltage tester and put the leads on both batteries while the truck was running... it showed 31.7 volts !!!
I am guessing it should be around... 26 to 28 volts?? Did I wire the alternator up wrong when I reinstalled it??? I've since took the wires back off, and tried to verify their position, reinstalled it all, but still shows its over charging.....
I will add that I did change the brushes out in the alternator. A friend had looked at it when I was trying to repair the case, and had stated that the brushes were wore way down. I looked at them, they didn't look too bad to me, but I had no new brushes to compare them too. So I bought some brushes, and installed them today. The new brushes was only about 1/4" longer than the old one's... in any case, I don't think I screwed up anything inside the alternator, as all I removed was the brush holder with brushes, and the 3 little screws that held it in.
The other little issue I've had is the temp light under the speedometer (circled in photo below) stays on...
A few days ago I started the truck up and noticed that the light wouldn't go out, I revved the engine a few times and it went out and didn't come back on. Thought at first maybe some air was still in the cooling system.
But then a couple days later, I started the truck again, and the light was back on. I had already ordered a new sensor (the one on the radiator) so I changed the sensor out, but no change, the light just stays on.... never did that before...
Anyway, thats my current update.
As Always, any input is Much Appreciated!
Thanks
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