CUCV 1986 M1008 - In a Real Pickle - Bad Heads - Need Advice

[Commander5993]

I don't blame you one bit for wanting to work on the motor in a comfortable position. Like they always say "work smarter not harder"... I always seem to do the opposite of that though...

And Yes, it would have been better to pull the motor. But I just don't have a much $ right now, so I was only trying to replace what I had to at the present time. I don't like doing a job just enough to "get by". I would have much rather pulled the motor, completely torn it down, rebuilt the entire thing, done any other work while I had everything apart, dropped it back in, and been done with it and knew it would be good for a long while.

Anyway, I did check the motor mounts this morning, they seem solid... don't act like they are busted or anything.
But I just cant come up with another reason why the engine would sit that far back if that is not how it was designed.
So I think I'm going to replace them anyway, if it doesn't help then so be it, at least I'll know the mounts are new. Oreilly has the OE mounts in stock for $40 for all 3, so I just going to grab them while I'm down there today.

 

[Csm Davis]

But how are they evenly tightened if they are not the same torque spec?



3ft lbs?

Yeah I know you can't reuse tty head bolts. I have two sets of all new fel-pro head bolts.
Getting ready to install the heads today, which is why I'm pondering the torque specs.

It is definitely NOT 3 ftlbs. I have a printout of the newest manual and it is 50 or 55 ftlbs I will post it in a couple hours.

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[cucvrus]

I thought there were 3 Ftlb torques and then the 1/4 turn

This is my quote. What I was saying in that they have 3 torques that you go thru in sequence and ft lbs and then you do the 1/4 turn. I was typing off memory. That meant3 ft lb of torque spec be it 20 50 90 and then the 1/4 turn. I know 3 ft lbs would not work. Give me some credit. I think an in lb or Nm would be more accurate. Have a great day. I don't need any TM lessons or quotes from manuals. I have that information when I need it. In casual conversation I was using these numbers as examples only. Thank you.

 

[Commander5993]

I thought there were 3 Ftlb torques and then the 1/4 turn

This is my quote. What I was saying in that they have 3 torques that you go thru in sequence and ft lbs and then you do the 1/4 turn. I was typing off memory. That meant3 ft lb of torque spec be it 20 50 90 and then the 1/4 turn. I know 3 ft lbs would not work. Give me some credit. I think an in lb or Nm would be more accurate. Have a great day. I don't need any TM lessons or quotes from manuals. I have that information when I need it. In casual conversation I was using these numbers as examples only. Thank you.

Yeah I figured out what you were trying to say later, just didn't know what you meant at that moment. I knew you weren't saying the heads were 3 ft lbs, but rather was asking what were you referring to without typing out the whole question.

So are you saying that you did find that there was three ft lb specs + 1/4 turn? As in that it is: 20ftlbs - 50ftlbs - then 90 ft lbs + 1/4 turn??

I hadn't seen the 90 ft lbs anywhere before, in the TM's nor in the GM civy manuals.
Everything I have found thus far only states to tighten in sequence to: 20ftlbs - 50ftlbs + 90-degrees or 1/4 of a turn.

 

[cucvrus]

TM 9-2320-289-34
tighten to 20 lbs in sequence
tighten to 50 lbs in sequence
tighten 1/4 turn in sequence.
I wanted to clear this up. I mentioned 90 and was wrong. I hope you are OK with that. i corrected the error of my ways. NOT as good a memory when you torque everything on the vehicles.

 

[Commander5993]

i corrected the error of my ways.

np, I haven't torqued any of the head bolts yet anyway... took waaaaay longer in town today than what I had planned... that's what happens when other people go with you...

Then this evening I've been trying to fix my leaking floor jack, as it got to the point it couldn't even pick up my neighbors riding lawn mower...
need to get a new jack, as this one is a kmart special about 20 years old, it blew a seal apparently when we were trying to help someone level their rv... which was loaded down so heavy that it bent the frame on their rv.

Anyway, going to start on the motor and transmission mounts in the morning. Hope I can get them changed out. Once that's done, then its back to work on the engine...

 

[Csm Davis]

I thought there were 3 Ftlb torques and then the 1/4 turn

This is my quote. What I was saying in that they have 3 torques that you go thru in sequence and ft lbs and then you do the 1/4 turn. I was typing off memory. That meant3 ft lb of torque spec be it 20 50 90 and then the 1/4 turn. I know 3 ft lbs would not work. Give me some credit. I think an in lb or Nm would be more accurate. Have a great day. I don't need any TM lessons or quotes from manuals. I have that information when I need it. In casual conversation I was using these numbers as examples only. Thank you.

Wasn't trying to school you. But the way it was written several times it looked as if you were saying 3ftlbs not 3 different ftlbs then 90°.

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[cucvrus]

Wasn't trying to school you. But the way it was written several times it looked as if you were saying 3ftlbs not 3 different ftlbs then 90°.

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That's OK. I am NOT above learning. All is well. But hey that's a HMMWV Not a CUCV. Now someone will be looking for all them wires and that fancy do hicky in the vacuum pump hole. Oh the humanity. Have a great day. I am so confused I don't have all them wires on the back of my head. NOT

 

[Commander5993]

Here is a question... Does the CUCV M1008 6.2L engine use the same motor and transmission mounts at the Civilian Chevy K30 6.2L engine?

 

[cucvrus]

Energy Suspension motor mount inserts.

Trick question. It uses the 1983 350 gas engine mounts. Let me get you an Energy Suspension number.

Energy Suspension. 3.11168 Autozone part number 353700. $29.99 each X 2. Worth the money.

 

[Commander5993]

Trick question. It uses the 1983 350 gas engine mounts. Let me get you an Energy Suspension number.

Thats what I figured... didn't know it was a different year, but I was just looking at these mounts that are currently on the truck, although they looked exactly like the mounts I bought from orielley yesterday, looking from underneath the truck, they don't look right. They only have one bolt on the bottom side of the mount that connects to the plate mount on the frame. The other hole on the mount is half off the plate and you can't get a bolt through them.
So it looks like someone has put civy mounts on this truck, which in turn is why the engine is not sitting where it should be ??

I know you mentioned the energy suspension yesterday, I should have looked it up to make sure it looked like what I had.
If I had done that, I would have realized that the ones from orielley wouldn't have worked.

 

[cucvrus]

It is all good. I had issues with store bought motor mounts. I wore a pair out in one weekend at Rausch Creek and my engine sat down hard on the fuel pump line. About ruined my day at the off road park. I done a lot of research and found the Energy Suspension ones to be the ticket. I was climbing a very step hill in 4 WD low and the engine was torqued tight. As tight as 135 HP can get. LOL. But at the tp of the hill I smelled fuel and the motor was sitting o the fuel pump inlet hose. Cut at the fitting. At the time I could not se the cut. I wore out a starter getting home and ended up changing my motor mounts right after the second set I bought were crap. Good Luck.

 

[cucvrus]

If I remember correctly they do only have 1 bolt on the bottom of the mount. They have 2 holes but only 1 is used. I am good with these motor mounts at this point. but I don't have one to take a picture of at the moment. I have my M1009 Mule parked outside the plant if you have any questions but 3 bolts with nuts per side is and was the factory OEM normal setup. Hope that helps. Good Luck. I can look closer this evening and get pictures if you need them. I have off the entire weekend for CUCV assembly and grass mowing. OH JOY.

 

[Commander5993]

Trick question. It uses the 1983 350 gas engine mounts. Let me get you an Energy Suspension number.

Energy Suspension. 3.11168 Autozone part number 353700. $29.99 each X 2. Worth the money.

You sure the autozone number is 353700?? I tried it on their website and it brings up a power steering line...?

I tried the energy suspension number also 3.11168 on google, but only came up with 3-1116G?
I tried this number on autozone and came up with this energy suspension motor mount, does this look right: http://www.autozone.com/external-engine/motor-mount/energy-suspension-motor-mount/353700_242102_12551?fromString=search&make=&model=&year=

I went through your easter find thread, and saw where you were talking about the energy suspension motor mounts, but didn't see a part number.
I may have just missed it though.

I'm going to take the old mounts out and take a look at them. Might not be back at the computer for a bit.

 

[cucvrus]

https://www.amazon.com/Energy-Suspension-3-1116G-Shell-Engine/dp/B000CN74PE

You got the right ones at the Autozone site. I guess I need to document things a bit better. I rely on memory and make mistakes. It wasn't that far off it put you in the right direction. I can't say enough good about the Energy Suspension mounts. They are the ones you want. You use your old steel clam shells over so you know they are the right ones. Just get the metal inner framework correct and do 1 side at a time. you will be golden. I use short bolts and use the zip ties somewhere else. Just use a drill and drill the rivets out of the old motor mount the old rubber inserts make nice camp fire fuel. Keep mosquitoes away. They come with instructions and are an easy upgrade. Good Luck.

https://www.amazon.com/Energy-Suspension-3-1116G-Shell-Engine/dp/B000CN74PE

I checked my notes I must have copied wrong but the G is correct.

 

[Commander5993]

Ok, I got one mount out. The rubber looks and feels solid. It also looks very close to the civy chevy k30 mount I bought from Oreiliy's, but the civy mount is about a 1/2" longer and the bolt holes do not align with the old mount.

With that said, does this look like the old mount is the correct one?
If the mount is not bad, as again the rubber is solid, then what else could make the engine sit back that far?? Transmission mount??


Took this photo to compare the two before I noticed the bolt holes didn't align. But you can still see the old mount on the left side:






EDIT:
I forgot, since I was taking photos, I was going to ask if this is the normal exhaust manifold for the non-turbo 6.2L?

 

[cucvrus]

The motor mount is NOT correct. The exhaust manifold looks to be the right one. I always go with the motor mount inserts. Hard to tell if the motor mounts are bad when they don't have a 800lb engine laying on them. Your motor mounts you removed look like the right ones. Continue. But I would still replace the inserts. Good Luck.

 

[Commander5993]

The motor mount is NOT correct. The exhaust manifold looks to be the right one. I always go with the motor mount inserts. Hard to tell if the motor mounts are bad when they don't have a 800lb engine laying on them. Your motor mounts you removed look like the right ones. Continue. But I would still replace the inserts. Good Luck.

Just ordered a set of energy suspension from Amazon, supposed to be here wednesday.
The autozone nearest me would have to order them to, still wouldn't be in until next week, so I just decided to order them from amazon and save a trip to town.

bad or not, going to replace them anyway as you suggested. Might as well as eliminate the mounts as an issue at least. Still not sure if that will pull the engine forward or not, best I can tell it sitting at least 1" back to far.
If the new mounts doesn't move the engine forward, then I have to bend one of the oil cooling lines that connects to the block right above the oil filter, as it is rubbing on the firewall. There is just so little room between the firewall and the exhaust manifold, there isn't even hardly enough room for the line not to rub one or the other.

The little section that I cut out of the firewall "flange" was at least enough that I was able to get the last head bolt in on the drivers side head, and I've got them all torqued to 50ftlbs. But I still have to go through and do the 1/4" turn, just hard to see the bolts, and many I can't just turn the wrench 1/4" of turn in one pull. So I'm still trying to figure that out. The only other way I can figure out is to turn one bolt that I can see 1/4 of a turn, then find out what torque that equals, and then set the rest to the same torque... I don't know.

 

[Commander5993]

Well, got the other motor mount pulled. Then I pulled the transmission mount.
The transmission mount is shot, you can pull off chucks of rubber with your fingers. It feels like it got oil or maybe there is a small transmission leak somewhere, and fluid got on the rubber and turned it mushy.

I believe this is the correct Energy Suspension replacement transmission mount: 3.1106G ?? - $53 on Amazon.

 

[cucvrus]

clock your 18mm socket with a pencil. turn it 1/4 turn and it is good. Torque will be off. Depends on how you do it. I would do the 1/4 turn. Good Luck.