cucv help starter broke engine block mounting hole.

[Paul Boudreau]

Hi newbie here I want to pull the trigger on buying a cucv truck with 63k miles. really rust free runs well,the problem being the starter broke the mounting hole on the engine block the person selling it said he would just replace the motor.Can this be fixed?? it seems crazy to have to scrap the engine because of this.If it cannot be fixed it may end up costing too much.Any info would be greatly appreciated... thanks ....Paul

 

[Lothar]

How about a pic? Sounds like it could be repaired with some tig welding

 

[Paul Boudreau]

thanks will try to post a pic tomorrow

 

[nyoffroad]

It can be welded (usually) if you do, chances are you won't get it lined up perfectly for the starter to mount up. The 2 starter bolts might go in ok but the mount on the end of the starter won't fit properly. (That end bracket is probably missing and why the block broke, don't ask how I know) Once the piece is welded back on try and see if everything lines up and the starter engages smoothly and doesn't hang up. If there's still a problem all's not lost because there's a fix for that too. It's a bit more work, drill the outer hole oversize and then use thread insert ( I forget what size) then cut the head off the appropriate bolt to form a stud and insert that using Loctite. Grind or file the stud flat with the surface and then using the starter as a templet and a punch that fits snug in the starter mounting hole CAREFULLY center punch the block and filed down stud. Then you just have to drill and thread the hole. MAKE SURE YOU USE NEW STARTER BOLTS AND THE CORRECT ONES, part numbers are around this site elsewhere and a search will turn them up. Good luck.

 

[Paul Boudreau]

It can be welded (usually) if you do, chances are you won't get it lined up perfectly for the starter to mount up. The 2 starter bolts might go in ok but the mount on the end of the starter won't fit properly. (That end bracket is probably missing and why the block broke, don't ask how I know) Once the piece is welded back on try and see if everything lines up and the starter engages smoothly and doesn't hang up. If there's still a problem all's not lost because there's a fix for that too. It's a bit more work, drill the outer hole oversize and then use thread insert ( I forget what size) then cut the head off the appropriate bolt to form a stud and insert that using Loctite. Grind or file the stud flat with the surface and then using the starter as a templet and a punch that fits snug in the starter mounting hole CAREFULLY center punch the block and filed down stud. Then you just have to drill and thread the hole. MAKE SURE YOU USE NEW STARTER BOLTS AND THE CORRECT ONES, part numbers are around this site elsewhere and a search will turn them up. Good luck.

thanks excellent info .greatly appreciated.......paul

 

[glcaines]

The price you pay should reflect the time and expense for the repair.

 

[cucvrus]

OK. I have fixed several of these in the past. Best way and may seem difficult but it is an opportunity to do many easy repairs and gasket replacement. Pull the engine. Put it on a stand and pay a good welder man to fix it properly. I paid about $200. the last time I had one fixed. I bought the truck at DRMO with the bolts broken off and several easy outs were jammed and broken in the holes. The genius welded and broke the side of the block. I had it fixed. Mainly getting the holes solid enough to mount a starter firmly is all you need. It is an easy job with the engine out. Don't get me wrong. It can be done with the engine in place. IMHO not as well. Do it right the first time and drive on. Half fast it and always wonder will this be that day? Take Care and Good Luck. I would do it if you were closer but I currently am at eyeball level with my Full Time, house work and my hobbies. Be Safe.

 

[nyoffroad]

OK. I have fixed several of these in the past. Best way and may seem difficult but it is an opportunity to do many easy repairs and gasket replacement. Pull the engine. Put it on a stand and pay a good welder man to fix it properly. I paid about $200. the last time I had one fixed. I bought the truck at DRMO with the bolts broken off and several easy outs were jammed and broken in the holes. The genius welded and broke the side of the block. I had it fixed. Mainly getting the holes solid enough to mount a starter firmly is all you need. It is an easy job with the engine out. Don't get me wrong. It can be done with the engine in place. IMHO not as well. Do it right the first time and drive on. Half fast it and always wonder will this be that day? Take Care and Good Luck. I would do it if you were closer but I currently am at eyeball level with my Full Time, house work and my hobbies. Be Safe.

I too would pull the engine, if for no other reason then I HATE laying on my back drilling and grinding. But some folks don't mind. It would also be easier to find a welder to do the job if you can't weld cast.

 

[SteelNinja]

Im not trying to Hijack the topic but does anyone know the correct part numbers and where to purchase the starter bolts? Id like to keep extras on hand. I'm like some others - I hate laying on my back grinding etc - Id pull the enngine.

 

[fitz]

Have you seen this truck in person yet?

 

[cucvrus]

Im not trying to Hijack the topic but does anyone know the correct part numbers and where to purchase the starter bolts? Id like to keep extras on hand. I'm like some others - I hate laying on my back grinding etc - Id pull the enngine.

Any M10 X 1.50 proper length METRIC, shank knurled starter bolts will work. I buy them at auto parts stores and starter rebuilding shops. As long as they are the metric one. the 3/8" will fit and semi get tight but are NOT the correct ones. I have bought several from the military that had the 3/8" bolts in place of the metric and most where code H for starter issues. Be Safe and do it right the first time.

 

[Rutjes]

Im not trying to Hijack the topic but does anyone know the correct part numbers and where to purchase the starter bolts? Id like to keep extras on hand. I'm like some others - I hate laying on my back grinding etc - Id pull the enngine.

GM 15544950. I ordered them from Rock Auto. Always use new bolts when (re-) installing the starter. Make sure the bracket, GM 14028931 for direct drive or GM 23502557 for gear reduction, is installed. I can tell you that broken starter bolts are no fun. Worst case, you get a broken mounting point on the engine block like the OP.

 

[cucvrus]

Honestly I reuse starter bolts all the time. I replace them when I see any defect but I never had any issues with used starter bolts. I have about a dozen brand new HMMWV starter bolts but they are longer. Same thread and all. A friend gave them to me as a gift. Take Care. I do not consider starter bolts a torque to yield bolt. They are tight as I can get them with a standard 3/8" hand ratchet. Take Care.

 

[nyoffroad]

Any M10 X 1.50 proper length METRIC, shank knurled starter bolts will work. I buy them at auto parts stores and starter rebuilding shops. As long as they are the metric one. the 3/8" will fit and semi get tight but are NOT the correct ones. I have bought several from the military that had the 3/8" bolts in place of the metric and most where code H for starter issues. Be Safe and do it right the first time.

Yeah, 3/8 bolts work just fine until they don't! I made that mistake many years ago, the 3/8 seemed to go in almost perfectly but not quite they had just a bit of drag right up to the moment they were almost tight and poof STRIPPED!

 

[frank8003]

M10x1.5 it has to be. An M10x1.5 would be slightly larger than a SAE 3/8" so would explain why a 3/8" might screw into the hole.

That said, they are very close, the 3/8" bolt is about 0.019" smaller and the pitch's are very close so the 3/8 -16 bolt will thread into the 10mm x 1.5 hole.
The use of a 3/8-16 bolt comes out to be approximately .024" to small ( about .012" on a side-l ess than a 64th").
To much wiggle might not be felt with grit and dirt working upside down and backwards.
The engineered Clarence for the threads to do what the deal was designed to do will be wrong.
It also has to do with how many threads are engaged in the application.
Wrong bolt in the threaded hole will fail something one way or another.

I posted all the information with the numbers and where to buy them but I can find that post now, don't know how. It was really good. I lost it in SS someplace in the last year or so.

Hey, ........... I found a metric thread in my Deuce, was I surprised!

 

[frank8003]

I found some of that information from my starter bolt post, couldn't find the post.

5306-01-227-9085 (5306012279085) NSN Information

NSN	FSC	NIIN	Item Name	INC
5306-01-227-9085	5306	012279085	Bolt, Close Tolerance	27851

5306-01-227-9085 Features GM PART #15544950

MRC	Parameter	Characteristics
AAJF	Thread Direction	Right-hand
AASA	Thread Length	6.0 millimeters nominal
AASB	Fastener Length	109.5 millimeters minimum and 111.0 millimeters maximum
AASK	Head Style	Hexagon
AASU	Head Height	6.17 millimeters minimum and 6.63 millimeters maximum
AATB	Width Between Flats	14.70 millimeters minimum and 15.00 millimeters maximum
AAUR	Grip Diameter	9.8900 millimeters minimum and 10.0000 millimeters maximum
AHYM	Nominal Thread Diameter	10.0 millimeters
ANEE	Grip Length	90.00 millimeters nominal
CQQR	Thread Pitch in Millimeters	1.5
CQWR	External Thread Tolerance Class	6G
MATT	Material	Steel overall
MDCL	Material Document and Classification	Gm 500-M fscm 11862 mfr ref single material response overall
SFTT	Surface Treatment	Zinc overall
STDC	Surface Treatment Document and Classification	Gm 4342-M 20D48 fscm 11862 mfr ref single treatment response overall
THSD	Thread Series Designator	M