Fine, but when I need something to work, I need something to work. I have no use for ANOTHER project vehicle that winds up diverting time from projects that I enjoy more.
Well, it's going to depend on the vehicle you buy as to whether you're going to have to spend time working on it or not doesn't it?
For example. If I spend $35,000 or more and go out and buy a new (or slightly used) 4x4 truck with the 10,000 lb+ towing package, I get the vehicle with updated everything off the shelf and I can go and go to a trailer lot, hook right up and go. But that's a LOT of money spent on a vehicle that could be used elsewhere.
Let's just be clear- YOU asked a question about the cost of entry and how it compared. I answered it. In the future, don't waste my time if you don't want to hear about the answer, just tell us all how the deuce is the ultimate vehicle for everything and everyone. I'm sure it'll help your resale value.
It was a rhetorical question for the original poster of this thread (ATC). He wants a tow vehicle for a hobby vehicle. He doesn't already have a use for the vehicle (ie a farm, or towing function for a private business). He's not going to be able to amortize the larger cost of a bigger heavier vehicle.
In my case I collect WWII british armoured cars. While they're NOT as big as a Bronco in most cases, they weigh a LOT more and I use them off road, at WWII events and I envision that I will have to go recover one, from the field at some point OR help someone else recover their vehicle from the field. A 1 ton dually pickup with a beefy towing package and a dinky electric winch ain't gonna cut the mustard for recovering a broken down little 2 person armoured car that weigh's 3 tons (as much as the pickup). The same can be said for a broken 4x4 in some places and cases. If the car is bogged down it's going to take something with some OOMPH to extract it. Up to the hubs is 2x the weight. Up to the fenders is 3x the weight. Those factors are true for a jeep or for a tank.
I know the math, I've done it myself, and me and the guys in my WWII group are doing the math again for a brace of heavier 8 ton armoured cars we're currently importing or have imported and are restoring. We're aiming for M818s and compatible trailers and have an intent to upgrade to line haul tractors later on. The advantages of the M818s is their capabilities to easily take a rear facing 20,000 PTO winch and a front mounted winch of the same size. How much does an equivalent 6x6 civilian tractor go for? A lot more than $5,000 to $10,000.
Fine, I guess they're not. I don't really care about getting to a broken down car in the middle of the boonies.
But ATC is. He's looking at a truck to go and get a 4x4 that may have busted an axle shaft or a transfer case or may be BADLY hung up on a rock. A 10,000 PTO winch like what the M35s have is FAR and away better than anything you'll find on MOST civilian 4x4 rigs. It has more power, more oomph and more safety factor. You go 4x4ing and you have to expect, on the outside chance, that something will break and you'll have some issues. If he's up where a deuce can't get to, he's probably up where a normal civilian tow rig can't get either. Worse comes to worse, with a deuce, you can at least rig a towbar and drag a broken 4x4 out of the woods. You can't do that with a normal vehicle. Heck, add a winch and some ramps, you can extemporize a way to get it into the bed and haul it out that way with blocks and some poles and the like too.
And no, IMO a deuce CAN'T tow a 5-ton trailer. I mean, it can, on level ground, at less than 50mph, but that's kind of, what's the word... useless to me. I need something that can move at highway speeds, and maybe, <gasp> over hills.
Sorry to burst your bubble with a bit of experience here:
Attached is the photo of my truck, the trailer and my Daimler Dingo (just now sold to a friend). I've hauled it to Pennsylvania and Virginia and back from Georgia several times now. All up weight is right at 26,000lbs (that was at a Cat scales). The deuce weighs ~7 tons. The trailer, dingo, and cargo of parts, kit, spare tires and other materials was another ~6. My route has been I85/I77/I81 and in other cases, I85/I95. I have 1100 Singles on it now and I can JUST keep up with traffic on the flats, I get some slower speeds on the bad hills. My absolute moving average on my last trip down with 1 ton on the trailer was 48.8 mph (that includes ramps and feeder artery street movement where I drive slower). With the trailer total average speed was 47 mph. I had no breakdowns, no faults, no failures of the truck. On the flats I was getting to 59mph when I wanted. I try to cruise at 55mph to save wear on the engine. Sitting at red line isn't a good thing, no matter what the engine.
The truck's limitations are the gearing overall. Most of the time, I can barely tell that there's a trailer behind my truck even under load going down hills, it feels like one complete package. Milage doesn't show much of a difference either. 5 tons of trailer doesn't push the 7~ ton's of truck around very well at all, especially when the truck has the extra leverage of a longer wheel base than most civilian trucks AND a significant amount of weight from the trailer on the tag transferred through the rear tandems. Trucks like a deuce, 'Like' the weight transfer from a trailer onto the rears under braking. Put the load on the trailer well forwards (mind you don't exceed the trailer's tag weight limits) and you're going to find that the load is MORE stable, no swaying and no squrrelly bits like you see on a civilian truck. I've towed heavy loads on a smaller pickup and it's like night and day. The deuce, despite the NDTs is more planted. Put some radials or grooved road tires on the truck and I expect it'll be MORE deliberate about it's direction. Even so, the roads in PA are awful. The turnpike and parts of I81 are LOTS of bounce. The deuce with the 5 tons behind it takes it all with aplomb.
The reason I'm posting here is to balance out the "Yeah! Get a Deuce! Best thing EVER!!!" Crowd. They don't seem to even acknowledge that there are disadvantages, much less say what the disadvantages are.
I didn't say that. I was pointing out, that for the cost of entry, you get a LOT of truck with a limitation on top speed and creature comforts. I'm HIGHLY aware of the lack of frills of a deuce. Again, Atlanta to PA and back. New years eve I drove back from Virginia, drive time was 12 hours. 10:30 am to 11:30pm, with 1 cumulative hour's worth of stops to check the truck, cargo control, lights and fill up fuel at a flying J in Virginia. With two tanks on the truck, I can fill up once and make it ALL the way back to Atlanta. I need to stop more and take a shot than the truck needs to stop.
If you get a deuce, unless it's been abused, it won't let you down before your own body does.
So, to recap, the pluses for a deuce are:
1. Low cost
2. HIGH cargo and tow capacity for the price In my case, I paid $8500 for the truck, $1000 for the trailer and I've invested around $2000 in technical things like new brakes for the trailer and truck. (I paid a premium for the truck by buying from a friend who'd cared for the truck over the years (Dave Sheaffer and his son Joe) and the condition of the truck and it's reliability shows. )
3. Higher than usual winch capacity than you find with civilian rigs. Options for easy rear facing winches too. 10,000 lb capacity, add some snatch blocks of the correct size and you can up that.
4. Simple design with late 40s technology in most cases.
The minuses are:
1. No frills. It'l be hot or cold in the cab, dress appropriately.
2. Lower than average speed. Don't try to hurry.
Pound for pound, a deuce is a LOT of truck for the usual amount of money you pay for it.
