Deuce front winch rebuild questions.

[Buderwuder]

What is the correct way to install the oil seal in the drum on the worm gear/bull gear end. I have looked in the manuals and cannot find the right way. I already installed one with the spring side of the seal facing out or towards the housing when installed. I am beginning to believe this is incorrect, because the drum does not go done the shaft far enough to allow for the keys to go in the shaft on the clutch end. Also does anyone have the torque specs for all the bolts on the winch?

 

[Buderwuder]

What is the correct way to install the oil seal in the drum on the worm gear/bull gear end. I have looked in the manuals and cannot find the right way. I already installed one with the spring side of the seal facing out or towards the housing when installed. I am beginning to believe this is incorrect, because the drum does not go done the shaft far enough to allow for the keys to go in the shaft on the clutch end. Also does anyone have the torque specs for all the bolts on the winch?

It looks like I have stumped everyone, or I have posted in the incorrect place.

 

[gringeltaube]

What is the correct way to install the oil seal in the drum on the worm gear/bull gear end. I have looked in the manuals and cannot find the right way.

Download this TM and scroll down to page 346...

The 10K-Garwood front winch on the early Deuces (M135, M211) is exactly the same as on the M44 series. In that TM you will find perfect images and a very detailed description for every step of a complete rebuild.

Page 353 reads this, about the seals:


Regarding torque values, there are none. All you will find there is "tighten cap screws firmly"...
I guess the authors assumed that anyone capable of doing a complete rebuild would already know what that means...

 

[Crazyguyla]

You probably haven't stumped anyone, not to many people around that have rebuilt a winch. From what I remembered about seals, the spring side always faces the oil. Maybe another of the ancient ones will pipe up and offer help. Are you asking about the torque for the winch case bolts and/or the mounting bolts to the frame extentions?

 

[Barrman]

I rebuilt mine back in 2007 and didn't see this thread until just now. Not stumped, but also not sure what you want to know exactly.

 

[Mullaney]

It looks like I have stumped everyone, or I have posted in the incorrect place.

.
Like Crazyguyla mentioned, the seal keeps the oil from flowing past the seal on the shaft - so spring side in - will be what you want. You might also using thread lock (NOT Stud Lock!) on those bolts into the soft metal. The blue stuff... Vibration more than anything is why they might come loose later without something to keep the bolts from walking out later.

Sorry about the slow response.
Us dinosaurs have to get our rest

 

[Buderwuder]

Download this TM and scroll down to page 346...

The 10K-Garwood front winch on the early Deuces (M135, M211) is exactly the same as on the M44 series. In that TM you will find perfect images and a very detailed description for every step of a complete rebuild.

Page 353 reads this, about the seals:
View attachment 858661

Regarding torque values, there are none. All you will find there is "tighten cap screws firmly"...
I guess the authors assumed that anyone capable of doing a complete rebuild would already know what that means...

Thanks so much, I didn't know about this manual, but I have it now.

 

[Buderwuder]

.
Like Crazyguyla mentioned, the seal keeps the oil from flowing past the seal on the shaft - so spring side in - will be what you want. You might also using thread lock (NOT Stud Lock!) on those bolts into the soft metal. The blue stuff... Vibration more than anything is why they might come loose later without something to keep the bolts from walking out later.

Sorry about the slow response.
Us dinosaurs have to get our rest

 

[Buderwuder]

Is the seal to keep the oil in the housing from escaping and leaking onto the ground from the bushing, or is it to keep the oil in the drum from leaking out of the drum and onto the ground?

 

[Buderwuder]

does anyone have a picture of the drum with the seal inserted correctly, that wood answer all my questions about the seals.

 

[Buderwuder]

I rebuilt mine back in 2007 and didn't see this thread until just now. Not stumped, but also not sure what you want to know exactly.

When I put the oil seal in the end of the drum that goes to the drive end, I may have put it in backwards. When I put the drum onto the shaft and seat the seal, and go to install the sliding clutch keys on the other end of the shaft they will not go in, because there isn't enough room end to end in the slot. I took the drum off and seated the seal a little deeper into its seat, which puts it below the rim on the seat, and when I put the drum back onto the shaft the keys went in. My understanding of the seals is that they should be seated flush with rim on the drum, not pressed further in. That being said, I wonder if the seal is in backwards, and somehow keeping the drum from fully seating with the seal around the housing. If it is in wrong, I will have to spend another 50 dollars for a new seal, because I cannot figure a way to get the old/new one out without damaging it, but if it is in correctly, and the seal needs to be seated further down in the drum then that is ok, I just don't know. If it is in incorrectly, it will leak and possibly fail prematurely which will mean another tear down Ugh. I hope this explains my situation.

 

[wascomatw74]

@JCKnife

 

[gringeltaube]

When I put the oil seal in the end of the drum that goes to the drive end, I may have put it in backwards. .....

Even if this isn't exactly the original seal (because it has that extra lip), the photo clearly shows what side goes in first.


I have rebuilt several of these winches and never had a problem like you described.
The seal goes in until flush with the drum, not more.
In the second photo you can see where the lip left its wear mark on the housing. It's only about 2mm from the edge of that button, so if you pushed-in your seal too far, it won't seal at all.

 

[Buderwuder]

These pics will help, I intend on working on it again this afternoon and let you what I find.

thanks

 

[Buderwuder]

These pics will help, I intend on working on it again this afternoon and let you what I find.

thanks

Well my fears were justified, the seal was in backwards, but all is not lost. I was able to carefully get it out and reverse it With very little trouble. Once reversed and installed the drum went on with clearance for the bushing and the keys. I am ecstatic, didn’t have to spend more money and all is good. Thanks to all the responders to the this post.