Deuce keeps getting air in fuel system

[Floridianson]

And too help keep the injection pump Head cool! Also with this type of system there is no bleeding if the injection system if you run out of fuel just add fuel turn on the pump bleed and leave.

 

[ivbeenrokd]

Here's what I found. I had apparently used the factory house when abandoning the factory pump and adding the external pump. When doing so I added a waterhose style fitting with internal screen filter to catch any junk and extend the hose lower in the tank. The hose itself seems fine, no cracking or anything. The screen filter was full of junk and the fitting had worked loose a little where the 2 halves come together.

Do you think the junk in the screen and loose fitting could be causing the problem?

 

[Floridianson]

I don't know if I would have done that screen. If it clogs you must remove the pump so I would just let the three filters do the job and remove that to start with.

 

[ivbeenrokd]

I don't know if I would have done that screen. If it clogs you must remove the pump so I would just let the three filters do the job and remove that to start with.

My thought had been since the factory pump had a screen filter that I should put one in front of the new external in-line lift pump to protect it from damage. Do you think that's not a risk? I used an Airtex E8135:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ATX-E8135/

 

[Jeepsinker]

That's one problem for sure. Get rid of that pump. That tiny little pump is more of a restriction than anything. It WILL NOT supply enough fuel to run your truck properly. You are going to have to find a Parker pump to put back in there.

 

[ivbeenrokd]

That's one problem for sure. Get rid of that pump. That tiny little pump is more of a restriction than anything. It WILL NOT supply enough fuel to run your truck properly. You are going to have to find a Parker pump to put back in there.

Since it's been a few years I don't remember the factory spec but I was thinking the 9psi and 35gph rating on the 8135 met that spec. It does surprise me to hear you say that as I have seen several others running that pump and I haven't had any trouble running full RPM for long distances/times which is where I would think a pump that was undersized would show a problem.

Thanks,
John

 

[Jeepsinker]

No, it is rated for 35 gallons per hour. Our trucks need 65 +... put a good lift pump back in and you will see a difference.

Also, grab the hose and see if you can rotate it on the hose barb that goes up and out of the tank. If that clamp gets loose it can suck air there. That his bar is also threaded into the block above it, so it can suck air there.

That pump is not enough..

 

[ivbeenrokd]

No, it is rated for 35 gallons per hour. Our trucks need 65 +... put a good lift pump back in and you will see a difference.

Also, grab the hose and see if you can rotate it on the hose barb that goes up and out of the tank. If that clamp gets loose it can suck air there. That his bar is also threaded into the block above it, so it can suck air there.

That pump is not enough..

I will check those areas too, thank you for the help!

John

 

[ivbeenrokd]

No, it is rated for 35 gallons per hour. Our trucks need 65 +... put a good lift pump back in and you will see a difference.

Also, grab the hose and see if you can rotate it on the hose barb that goes up and out of the tank. If that clamp gets loose it can suck air there. That his bar is also threaded into the block above it, so it can suck air there.

That pump is not enough..

Well, after getting it all back together it is now worse than before I started. I can run it for 10-20 minutes fine and then all of a sudden it dies. Cracking the bleeder screw on top of the secondary filters gives a good mixture of air/fuel for at least 60 seconds and then the air goes away. I've done this for tank levels from 1/4 to 5/8 and the results seem the same. I'm thinking I may run it by the gas station tomorrow morning to see if I get a different result with it really full but I don't think that will really help much.

Here's my checklist in relation to things I've touched today:
The connector at the bottom of the hose is good and tight
The hose itself is good
The connector at the top of the hose is good
None of the connections on the outside of the tank are leaking, all are tight.

The only thing I see that's left is the 90 degree connecting block at the top of the tank.

I guess one potential advantage of the in tank pump would be that it is pushing fuel by these connections rather than the external pump sucking fuel for 5 feet of line. I imagine pushing fuel that 5 feet would make it less likely to get any air than sucking fuel would.

I'm thinking I need to pull it back out and run through that 90 degree block like crazy unless any of you think differently.

Jeepsinker: Do you know of a good resource for the in-tank pumps now or is it just hunt and peck?

Thanks,
John

 

[ivbeenrokd]

I'm thinking if I can pressure test from the connector on the bottom of the pickup line to the output of the 90 degree connector on top of the tank that would be helpful. In the morning I'm going to get a connector to plug that output and then I could just use a blow nozzle with rubber tip on the bottom of the pickup hose to pressurize the assembly and hopefully find a leak.

 

[Jeepsinker]

You can try that. Fill it with water before you pressurize it so you can see if it leaks. The fact that it got worse tells us the issue is right there somewhere.

You can get the Parker pumps off of Ebay. They are red, and cost around $50-$75.

 

[ivbeenrokd]

I just ordered a Parker pump, but I'm sure there's no way it will be here by Friday. I have parades Friday and Saturday so I'm going to have to get this thing working reliable before then.

 

[rustystud]

And too help keep the injection pump Head cool! Also with this type of system there is no bleeding if the injection system if you run out of fuel just add fuel turn on the pump and leave.

The cooling is also one reason for the bypass yes. The main reason for the metered orifice according to the manual is getting air out of the system.

 

[daytonatrbo]

You can get the Parker pumps off of Ebay. They are red, and cost around $50-$75.

I just picked one up. It was around $55 but the seller took over a week to ship the item. I was displeased, but he has the best price around so I will invariably end up buying from him again and I don't want to get him upset with bad feedback.

 

[ivbeenrokd]

I just picked one up. It was around $55 but the seller took over a week to ship the item. I was displeased, but he has the best price around so I will invariably end up buying from him again and I don't want to get him upset with bad feedback.

Yes, I noticed on the listing it said it would take around a week to ship. I would love to have it here tomorrow, but isn't that the way it always is? LOL.

 

[daytonatrbo]

Yes, I noticed on the listing it said it would take around a week to ship. I would love to have it here tomorrow, but isn't that the way it always is? LOL.

I looked and looked for his handling time to explain the slow performance, and didn't find anything. I guess my issue was that I was using the mobile app. It's not made clear at all.

I did contact him after about 3-4 business days and he said that he "overlooked" my purchase and would get it out "the next day" and it still went another few days before the tracking info updated.

 

[ivbeenrokd]

This morning I thought I would check a few more things before getting a plug for the 90 degree connector (giving me the ability to block one end and pressurize the other). I turned on the pump and let it run for a couple of minutes, cracked the bleeder screw on the secondary filters and got a lot of air as I expected. I took the fuel line loose on top of the tank and then took the vent line loose on top of the tank. When I took the vent line off the tank it released air pressure. It didn't do that yesterday when I removed it and I wouldn't have expected it should do that. Any thoughts on that?

 

[Floridianson]

The cooling is also one reason for the bypass yes. But it really doesn't "flow" all that much. The main reason according to the manual is getting air out of the system.

Was that the Troubleshooting the 465 manual. It flows and remember the secondary filter bypass does not open till over 60 to 70 lbs. Let the motor idle (35 lbs.) and see how much flows back to the tank or even just the in tank pump running it still flows quite a bit but not needed for cooling as the motor is not running. Yes intake pump will remove any air and also supply's the IP lift pump positive pressure the gain the performance when running.

 

[Floridianson]

That is why the injector pump has a continuous supply of fuel going through it to help bleed out the small air pockets that can get in normally..

Was just adding the thing about the cooling in response to your comment to help education. Also the head has what is called the IP overflow valve not a bypass with a orifice in it to allow the fuel to always flow through the Head unit and also keep the pressure in the head correct when running. When not running fuel just passes through so we can clear the air after filter change in a correct system.
I have heard of microburst's but it was use to describe the newer injection systems the have controlled microburst's through out the cycle of the burn to better control the burn and not just dump a large load of fuel at one time like the mechanical injection do.

 

[Jeepsinker]

It was probably vacuum, not air pressure. If it was pressure, your vent is crushed shut, or the spring cap on the end is faulty.

I ordered a pump from that guy once too. Waited four months and thought I got screwed. Then I realized he is a member here, so I messaged him. Turns out he "overlooked " my order there too. He just does this for a hobby apparently so he doesn't feel the need to ship like dealers do.