Deuce Seating Capacity

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

Texas has passed a new version of their SEAT BELT LAWS requiring that ALL PASSENGERS MUST USE SEATBELTS at all times in any vehicle designed to carry 15 persons or less.

I am not against this as a safety issue - just asking this following "technical" questions

How many troops are expected to fit (by design) on the standard 12 foot bed troop seats? (Plus the 3 in the cab)?

Is there a mil-spec centerline troop seat that would increase the seating capacity even more?

Thanks for any and all input!

 

[Recovry4x4]

Well, the truck with troop seats is designed to carry 16 troops in the back and 2 occupants in the cab. Adding a 3rd seat belt in the cab is a breeze. There exists a TB showing how to fabricate center mounted troop seats but these are not intended to double the capacity, they replace the side mounted seats.

 

[bigbee]

TB 9-639 gives the "official" seating capacity. A lot of our Michigan Army Guard trucks had a 3rd seatbelt in the cab already.

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

Thank you, Gentlemen.

Then, even with only two in the cab and 14 on the troop seats (16 total) the passengers in the back of a deuce would seem exempt from the new seat belt requirement for vehicles designed for 15 persons or less. ---- Those in the cab would still REQUIRE seat belts under the pre-existing Front Seat requirement.

Cool Beans - Thanks for the quick resolution of these points.

P.S. For the sake of safety, in-lieu-of seat belts, passengers may be DUCT TAPED to the troop seats in the cross-country mode of operation. Right??? <lol>

 

[saddamsnightmare]

September 29th, 2009.

Dear USAFSS-ColdWarrior:

From looking at the wording of the changes to the Texas Motor Vehicle Safety Codes, the seat belt law above applies only to smaller the 16 Passenger Vans, not to the Deuce and a Half. The Question is, between your insurance company and the fact that the deuce is a Cargo truck with built in at the factory seating...... What's the likelihood of a LEO
having a coronary if we use them beyond parade use? Even with the cargo/passenger restraint strap across the rear cargo gate..... it isn't quite a schoolbus, passenger van or other conventional vehicle. Most of our non-commercial insurance policies place the limt at 6 passengers I believe.
I was sweating my 1963 Swiss Cargo Unimog S404.114, as it doesn't have seat belts in the cab and no provision, given where the fuel tanks, engine, transmission and other frame mounted gear is, to mount them in any reasonable manner. The law doesn't seem to cover Unimogs, and most of this older equipment is grandfathered anyway.

Just my .o2 worth,

Cheers,

Kyle F. McGrogan

N.B. If your deuce doesn't have seat belts or mountings for seat belts from the factory, the cab would likely be exempt also, but IF it had the modifications done, you'd likely need to have them operative, The Army usually considered the deuce to have a "Two-Man" cab.

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

Kyle,
Thanks for you $0.02 worth. I had imagined this thread taking the insurance/LEO turn even more quickly than it did.

Though I asked about the seating capacities merely as a hypothetical at this point (still awaiting my 1st deuce) it was a practical question.

The BIG "IF" is.... If even one unrestrained rider is in the back of a deuce, would that constitute a legitimate violation of the new seat belt law?

The apparent answer would be, "NO".

However, with this law now on the books, and LEO's tasked with Municipal Revenue Generation Duties, coupled with their common lack of familiarity with MV's and the laws regarding them.... I would reasonably anticipate LEO "harassment", "interest", "focus", "targetting". "profiling" (or any other appropriate term) that would bring undue "justifiable cause" for a little "roadside conversation" with the vehicle operator (me).

Consequently, I was pondering the value of knowing the actual/factual passenger capacity for that BIG "IF" scenario.

As for the insurance issue..... Ah, Let us not hijack this thread for THAT topic, as there are already enough threads in that quilt.

Again, thanks for the fruitful discussion....

Best regards (and a SALUTE) to all!
John

 

[50shooter]

I've seen some legal verbage that states to have people in the back, it must have seat belts and roll bars front and rear. I have not looked into that much yet but someone else may have already done their homework and will chime in. Hopefully there is an age or type exclusion on that.

In the AF they put is in 1-1/2 ton stake beds standing up. You can put a lot of troops in one of those when everyone is standing.

Thanks

 

[Boatcarpenter]

Kenny,
Hate to do this to you, but I thought I had seen somewhere that the center troop seat was meant to double the seating capacity. Found it in the trusty -10.
BC
Might have to open the attachment in a new window to see it clearly.

 

[Recovry4x4]

I stand corrected on both accounts, the original seating number and the center mount seats! Sorry for the bad info folks.

 

[papercu]

Hate to do this to you, but I thought I had seen somewhere that the center troop seat was meant to double the seating capacity

Actually, the TB Kenny refers to (TB 9-2320-209-30/4 from 1966) has this:
1. Purpose. This bulletin provides instructions for the fabrication and installation of center-mounted troop seats by direct support maintenance perrsonel. The seating arangement will enable the troops to face outward to provide increased visibility of roadside and to reduce the hazards of ambush.
2. Scope. The troops seats will only be installed at WABTOC/WABCONARC for use in certain combat zones.

The troop seats in the -361-10 are "Mission required" and the installation instruction are in the TM 9-2320-361-24-2. Wayne

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

Actually, the TB Kenny refers to (TB 9-2320-209-30/4 from 1966) has this:
1. Purpose. This bulletin provides instructions for the fabrication and installation of center-mounted troop seats by direct support maintenance perrsonel. The seating arangement will enable the troops to face outward to provide increased visibility of roadside and to reduce the hazards of ambush.
2. Scope. The troops seats will only be installed at WABTOC/WABCONARC for use in certain combat zones.

The troop seats in the -361-10 are "Mission required" and the installation instruction are in the TM 9-2320-361-24-2. Wayne

Would "Mission required" equate to PARADES
It seems to me that this reconfiguration would be ideal for carrying "stiff old soldiers, sailors & airmen" who cannot turn their heads around backwards owl-style They could sure enjoy the flag-waving and crowds much more facing their "fans".

Could you please post the complete TM (or is it in the resources already)? (I'll confess - I have not looked yet.)

 

[papercu]

The TM should be in the Resource section and if the TB isn't there I can post it.
But I don't know if this would very well for parades, seem if you left the side troops seats down you would have a problem with leg room between the seats and the two top boards would block vision and if you left them up vision would be blocked even more.
You could remove the side troop seat entirely but for safety reasons I don't know if I would. Wayne

 

[gunboy1656]

You could leave the top 2 rails on, and remove the side seats for parades. Gives you the leg room and a little safety.

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

papercu & gunboy1656:
Both are very good thoughts on the matter.
At this point, I think I'll focus on GETTING my first deuce before tackling this project. For some reason, building the seats sans the truck just isn't logical (especially since I just woke up and my brain hasn't built up enough air pressure to silence the dang LowPressure Buzzer - - - I NEED COFFEE!!!)
Thanks again for sharing experiences and insight.
Have a Happy Sunday!

 

[saddamsnightmare]

September 20th, 2009.

USAFSS-ColdWarrior:

Pity I didn't know you were out in San Angelo, as I was out there in February 2009 giving at talk to the Civil War Roundtable on Confederate General Sam Bell Maxey.
My observation in East Texas is most LEO's will leave a deuce or a Unimog alone unless you are doing something real strange..... Having said that, I have not heard of too many of us hauling large groups except in parades at low speed, however if you put the cargo cover on with only the front and back "windows" open.... it could be Noah's Ark and nobody would be any the wiser. I looked the law over pretty closely, and I do think we are below the radar,.......BUT my two trucks are licensed as pick up trucks in Texas, on a 1-1/2T (Unimog) the other a 2-1/2/5 ton (deuce) both of which caused the courthouse licensing ladies heartburn and anguish. So, I may not be right on this one either.. but I know that the guys with the radars almost never bother looking the trucks over, heck, I can only speed in a school zone with the Unimog. Perhaps we may want to get a Special Bill passed in the Texas Legistlature exempting Military Vehicles of any type from this bill??

Cheers,

Kyle F. McGrogan

NB David Doyle has a photo of deuces coming ashore with the First Division at Da Nang, and there are like 18+ guys standing up in each trucks bed, no cab or cargo covers, and the sides of the engine hood are down for cooling effects... a cool shot!

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

Sadamsnightmare/Kyle:
Glad you came to visit in San Angelo. Unfortunately, my OD Green addiction didn't manifest itself until May/June of this year. So your visit in February was a bit prior to that.

Just for some background... My mother passed away on April 26th and in the coming weeks, I decided to refocus on some latent hobby interests and redefine what I wanted to enjoy before I kick the bucket.... Kinda like my own little Bucket List (have you seen the movie?).

Anywaze... Long story shortened... I am now pursuing happiness and it happens to be OD Green!

If you ever get back to San Angelo (or any other SS Members) give me a shout!

John