Deuce tail roller and bed winch, skid loading setup

[tim292stro]

Those add heat - any reason you aren't just matching the flow of the pump to the intended use? Multiple loads?

 

[DrillerSurplus]

To all the hyd experts out there, a I need a way to limit the flow to the winch to 3.5gpm. Pump output is 15gpm.

I've been looking at this valve http://www.baileynet.com/Pressure-Compensated-Flow-Control-Valves . It seems to be the most inexpensive way to accomplish this but wanted to see what else was out there.

I have used similar Prince valves many times where I wanted to be able to change the speed of a hydraulic function. With the variable flow valve like this, you do have to know what position the lever is in at the maximum desired flow. I'd assume that the 15 gpm total depends on engine rpm, so you would have to consider that too. You should probably put some sort of physical stop for the lever so you don't inadvertently put too much through to your winch with whatever bad things might happen.

I have never used one because I always wanted to be able to control the speed of the device, but Prince & others also make fixed flow rate flow dividers that have a preset priority flow rate. 3-30-GPM-PRINCE-PRIORITY-FLOW-DIVIDER-W-RELIEF flow divider circuit schematic

 

[DrillerSurplus]

Those add heat - any reason you aren't just matching the flow of the pump to the intended use? Multiple loads?

The flow divider will raise the pressure of the entire 15 gpm flow to the pressure of the 3.5 gpm flow to your winch. Also, if you are going to be using the remaining flow for anything, you need to make sure the flow divider valve you use can handle back pressure on the excess flow port.

Here is a quote from a good reference site- Hydraulics & Pneumatics flow-divider-circuits

"A priority flow divider wastes energy just like any spool-type divider. The inlet pressure to the divider is the same as the highest outlet pressure. When either outlet port is pressurized, the port with little or no pressure is wasting energy and generating heat."

Another possibility is to piggyback a smaller pump behind your existing pump if its design & space allows.

 

[m16ty]

Those add heat - any reason you aren't just matching the flow of the pump to the intended use? Multiple loads?

Yes, multiple loads. The pump that I'm wanting to use is already installed to run the dump bed.

The dump setup now goes from the pump to the spool valve that operates the scissor hoist. My preliminary plan was to tap into the existing spool via the power beyond port to run the winch. From the power beyond port I would put the flow divider in line before the winch. I'd just dump the excess flow from the divider back to the tank.

Also adding another pump section is also a option.

There is another option that may work but wouldn't be ideal. The pump is powered by the t-case PTO. It could be possible that I could select a low enough gear in the trans to turn the pump slow enough to stay within the winch specs gpm wise. I'd have to get out my pump paperwork to find displacement, revisit the trans gear ratios, and do a little math. The part that makes this option less than ideal is that I'd have to remember to only winch in a low trans gear as not to push too much flow to the winch.

* Edit- I think my pump is 1.15 cubic inch displacement. If my math is right, I can run the pump in 3rd trans gear and as long as I stay below 1,000 rpm on the engine, I'll be at 3.3 gpm.

Engine RPM (1,000) / 3rd gear ratio (1.62:1) X pump displacement (1.22 cubic inch) / 231 (cubic inches in a gallon) = 3.260114 gpm

 

[m16ty]

I had started this build in my "s280 shelter" thread but for ease of searching later on, I decided to move the bed loading setup in it's own thread. It pertains more to the modification of the truck and not the shelter anyway.

 

[m16ty]

Finally got some free time to do a little work.

I finally figured out and made some brackets to attach the roller to the back of the bed. The two pieces will bolt together and clamp a bushing that the roller will turn in. The bracket will remain on the truck and I'll unbolt the top portion to remove roller when not needed.

Figuring out attaching the roller to the bed turned into being more of a project than I expected. Trying to figure out how to retain the tailgate brackets, making the roller removable, and making sure it didn't interfere with the drop sides all caused challenges. Then there were challenges making the brackets. I needed to bore a 2 1/4" hole (the size of the bushing) into the 1" plate. I don't have a 2 1/4" drill bit but while I'm in no means a machinist, I do have a Bridgeport mill. I put the rotary table on the mill and bored the hole with a 1/2" end mill.

The last pic is something I came across on a recent job I did. Were were changing out a industrial clothes dryer at a uniform washing place. The old dryer (that they were going to scrap) had a hyd door on it that was controlled by this remote. Since they were going to scrap it, they let me have the controller. I figure it will work great for the winch remote.

 

[m16ty]

Gimpy, here's a pic of the solenoids.

 

[Another Ahab]

I needed to bore a 2 1/4" hole (the size of the bushing) into the 1" plate. I don't have a 2 1/4" drill bit but while I'm in no means a machinist, I do have a Bridgeport mill. I put the rotary table on the mill and bored the hole with a 1/2" end mill.

That's some serious stock.

The work looks real clean, too; nice.

 

[red]

You're planning to run just the outside 2 mounts correct?

 

[m16ty]

You're planning to run just the outside 2 mounts correct?

Yes, I'm going to try it that way. If the roller flexes too much during testing, I'll add the middle roller mounts.

 

[gimpyrobb]

I guess I'll have to dig mine out now, and see If I have those.

 

[m16ty]

Only one thing about the winch, I can't get over how flimsy the shift levers are (just thin stamped sheet metal) on these military winches.

If you go to the Milemarker website, you can see the civilian version of this same winch. On it they show big, thick metal levers. Why on earth do the military winches have these cheap levers that seem as if they would almost break just by looking at them?

 

[gimpyrobb]

Weight savings! They said the armor was more important.

 

[Coffey1]

With a single cable attachment point, how are you going to guide the shelter up in inline with bed.

 

[m16ty]

With a single cable attachment point, how are you going to guide the shelter up in inline with bed.

If you back up to the shelter square and in line before you start, it should winch on fairly straight. On the skid I made for the shelter, I attached shackles to each skid. There will actually be two attachment points on the shelter itself but will still end up at one point where the winch line attaches to the spreader chains attached to the skid.

There is a single center attachment point on the skid also. That is so I can get the shelter all the way to the front. What I'll do is pull the shelter up onto the bed with the spreader chains attached to each skid. After the shelter is on the bed, I'll move the winch line to the single center attachment to get the shelter all the way to the front. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to get the shelter all the way to the front due to the amount of space the spreader chains would take up.

I have already thought about laying some boards on the bed floor up against the bed sides to fill in the gap between the shelter and the bed sides. That way, if it gets a little off center, the shelter skid will just rub on the boards and not scrape the shelter sides down the bed sides.

I hope all this makes sense. It's all in my head but sometimes hard to type into words.

 

[Augi]

Make sure your pulleys up by the cab to change the cable direction aren't too small a diameter and damage the cable.

Augi

 

[sigo]

Completely different direction, but do you have a drop side? One of our SS members in Germany built a phenomenal shelter loading system with legs. He could just raise the shelter and back the under the shelter. Looks like great design, much less wear and tear on everything involved but a more intensive build than a tail roller. http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...-to-Camper-Conversion/page3&highlight=shelter

Also, just because I found it in my search for the thread above, see post #70. http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...-quot-truck-quot-camper-for-a-M35-Deuce/page2

 

[quickfarms]

There are several options to ease the loading and unloading.

One is to add one or two additional rollers in the truck bed. Usually the roller just aft of the middle of the bed can be raised hydraulically to aid in unloading.

The other option is to make the bed raise hydraulically.

It would be wise to add guide rollers to the bed to keep the skids centered.

 

[m16ty]

I have seen a couple of shelter loading setups that use legs and it seems like it would work great, just seems like a lot of work to take in and out compared to what I'm building. What I'll probably do when I get to the campsite is unload the shelter and sit it on the ground. That way I won't have to climb a set of steps to get in and out of the shelter and it will free up the deuce to ride the trails or whatnot.

I've seen the post on Red's setup and although I've had this in my mind for a long time, Red built his first and I've taken many pointers from his design. I also like Red's idea about other skids besides the shelter to load/unload stuff out of the bed.

The tail roller/winch setup has many uses. I've got a 1,000 gal water tank I may add skids on, instant tanker deuce. I'll also have a rear winch to pull myself out of a tough spot backwards or pull a disabled vehicle onto a trailer I'm pulling. It's even in the back of my mind to maybe add a set of gin poles to the back for lifting.

 

[m16ty]

The other option is to make the bed raise hydraulically.

Already done. The truck has a dump on it already http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...ump-conversion&p=582032&viewfull=1#post582032

It would be wise to add guide rollers to the bed to keep the skids centered.

Look at the oilfield trucks or the pipeline deuce, none of them have guide rollers. I think a piece of wood on each side to keep from banging the shelter into the bed sides will be sufficient.

I will also admit this is a work in progress and kind of going with design changes as I go along. If problems arise once I get to actually pulling the shelter onto the bed, I'll address them then.