Deuce tractor - what can it really haul?

[Hammer]

Been thinking of converting one of my deuces to a tractor.
I will either do that, or turn my M200A1 into a dolly.
But, what could a deuce tractor REALLY haul? How much weight, and how well will it work with trailer brakes to hold back a somewhat heavy load?

My intended use for a tractor (yes, I know, I need a M818, I will get one soon enough), is to be able to haul a dead 2.5 or 5 ton truck on a flat bed trailer.
I would also use it to haul some vehicles around to club meetings (FSJ Cherokee, bobbed deuce, etc).

If I lived in the flat lands, I wouldn't worry about this all that much.
But I live in the mountains. Nothing like going over the pass in CO, but there are plenty of passes in CA around here, and where I will be going.

Obviously the Cummins 250 will provide a lot more power. But will the deuce be able to handle the load I want through the hills? Is the 5 ton really that much better for this task?

 

[tm america]

hmm hills mountains i would be worried about the brakes with a 2.5 ton.i'd go with the 5 ton for what youre doing

 

[res0wc18]

exhaust brake!!!!

Huge difference!

 

[Hammer]

hmm hills mountains i would be worried about the brakes with a 2.5 ton.i'd go with the 5 ton for what youre doing

If you drive correctly in the mountains, you will be rarely using your brakes. Choose the proper gear BEFORE going down, and life will be good.

I definitely agree on the exhaust brake. I have them on my pickups, and they are great!
The limiting factor is the weak exhaust springs, so I can only use a lower back pressure setup.

The LDS powered 5 ton tractor is using the same engine for braking, etc. That has more HP for going, but pretty much the same braking power (from the engine).

Seems that most people are too used to driving their new vehicles with 4 wheel disc brakes, ABS, etc. and don't understand how to drive an older vehicle with older style drum brakes.
Btw, I have towed a deuce through these hills with my deuce. It is slow going, but it does just fine considering the tow bar setup.

Also, how well does the air system on the deuce keep up with the air brakes on the trailers with two axles?

 

[tm america]

driving it is not the problem the problem is that you have to be carefull not ot over rev the engine . when using the engine to slow the truck down .since doing that will over run the gov and you can end up throwing the rods while engine braking

 

[Recovry4x4]

Search Exhaust brake by author cranetruck. Bjorn has a valve on his exhaust and a pressure gauge to monitor the exhaust pressure. When he did his cross country trip, he used it alot out west.

 

[NDT]

My M275A2E1 tractor is equipped with the LDS engine, and I regularly pull a 25 ton lowboy weighing 10,000 lbs, and the most I have carried is 26,000 lbs. The trailer brakes do most of the braking. If you look at a data plate for a gas M-48 or M275, you will see that the gross trailer weight is 36,000 lbs. The turbocharger is really screaming at highway speed, but the LDS is good for it. Uphills with only 200 hp is understandably a 25 mph ordeal. The modern trucks with 475 hp will blow your doors off, but 40 years ago they would have been crawling along too. That's my experience, however I would not recommend the 130 hp LD or LDT engine for highway speeds.

 

[Hammer]

NDT, great info, THANKS!
That is what I was after, FIRST hand experience.

TN, yeah, I know how to drive a truck.

Recovery, yeah, I have read his posts on the exhaust brakes. I plan on doing that no matter what the deuce gets used for. I love them on my pickups, and think any diesel vehicle could benefit from one.

 

[Recovry4x4]

I regularly pulled 20,000 with mine. Dunno how much over that I'd go.

 

[Hammer]

In FL, but do you take 20K through any real mountains? Not being sarcastic, just trying to get a feel of how the truck HANDLES with the weight in the hills, etc.
Btw, I have some SERIOUS mountains around me that have some killer switchbacks, and miles of pretty bad grade (6 to 14% is fairly common).

 

[Recovry4x4]

I took it up to OH back in 03. I was at 25 at the top of Jellico. Anything short of flat ground, it struggles. It will get you there, just plan some extra time.

 

[Hammer]

Ok, good to know, thanks.
The truck felt fine coming down those hills though?
12k lbs for a tractor is pretty light weight, and I would think that a decent trailer weight could push the truck around a bit more then would be comfortable in some situations (no matter the speed, that much weight behind you will push the little deuce around).

 

[Recovry4x4]

It actually handles 20,000 quite well as far as feel. No ill handling issues at all. I'm paranoid on decents anyways. Once at the top I try to keep at 50 or less the whole way down. Luckily, the military semi trailers that I've towed have pretty stout brakes for their size and had no problems scuffing off speed when necessary. I've towed M348s, M373s, M447Cs and M146s. The M118, M119 and M146 are ideal trailers for a deuce tractor.

 

[Hammer]

Yeah, I was thinking those M146 trailers would be VERY nice with a smaller deuce tractor.

I still plan on getting a M818, that is just a matter of time.
But it would be nice to have the deuce for hauling the smaller trailers like that, and still have the free fuel aspect of the multifuel.
Probably just do the dolly setup. That way it could be hauled by just about anything.

 

[NDT]

Hammer, given the grades you mentioned, I would stay away from using a deuce for what you mentioned. I myself have always felt uncomfortable with the rig, and that's why I bought a M931A2 5 ton tractor that is equipped with oversized brakes. Can't give you a report on that rig yet, can't find the parts to finish it!

 

[oifvet]

I will so next to nothing regarding this matter. I refer to past posts.

I will say, it will do the job.

Hammer, have you had any luck locating the trailers mentioned above?

I once dreamt of my deuce becoming a tractor, and was on the prowl for a suitable single-axle trailer for it.

I'll probably just go back to beating my head agaist a wall though.

 

[Hammer]

Actually, there are a number of the ones I mentioned on GL.
Bad timing for me though.

 

[jatonka]

I have towed my M127A1 trailer around Upstate NY for several years and have to tell you, There is no speed or power available to a Deuce tractor(M275 A2) in hill country. Braking is not a problem, Tandem trailers will stop you faster than you want. I live in big hills, the Deuce tractor does not have enough power to do well here, ut it will stop very well with tandem trailer attached. From true experience, JT out

 

[Desert Deuce]

Here's a link to a trip report with my M275A2 Deuce Tractor:

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/trailers/21983-m128a2c-recovery-barstow.html#post226271

Gives a little insight into the Deuce Tractor's performance.

 

[oifvet]

I love deuces, and I love tractors. That's what drove me to converting my deuce to a tractor. I don't have any performance input for this thread since I don't actually have a deuce tractor, (I know that sounds confusing, but no one could be more confused about the whole thing than me).

Anyway, I find this thread very interesting. I have to keep reminding myself that a lot of these performance concerns boil down to simple mathmatics simple physics, if there is any such thing. Neither were my strong subjects.

If you look at what the military, (the customer), was looking for in the deuce and/or in a deuce tractor, cross-country highway performance was probably not the crux of the idea. No doubt the true deuce tractor (M275) was probably best suited for limited short tactical hauls in limited environments. It certainly is a rugged vehicle but speed and long range was the sacrifice. A great yard jockey or cattle-car puller, which definitely shoots it up the versatility chart. I'd say the five-ton multi-fuel (M52) would be a sweet baby, but my thing about the duece tractor is the ease of maintenance for a SS with limited space, tools, and assistance. I'm still young enough and agile enough to wrestle a deuce, but a five-ton might prove to be an a__ kicker at times.

I dont have any, but maybe someone could put a pic of the "Smurf-Tractor" in here. THAT was my dream truck. That, and Eric "Miltruck's" really cool deuce tractor build.