Deuce won't start.

[KaiserM109]

I know, RTFM. The trouble is that I don't know what TM to look in. Here's the problem in a nutshell (coconut sized):
The deuce is a '66 Kaiser Jeep with a NON-turbo Continental w/ 23K miles.

1. It used to start easily until I ran it out of fuel and had to bleed air out of the valve at the top of the fuel filters to get it to start at all. After that it took longer to crank than before, but would start after about 30 seconds of cranking. It has been a storage queen and has only made a few trips around the storage yard because I don't have it insured and licensed. The fuel heater had a minor leak.
2. This past month it got down to 10 below zero and I went out to start it. It turned over, but wouldn't fire. I noticed the fuel heater was no longer leaking. I gave up, fearing that if I ran the batteries flat, they would freeze.
3. I came back on New Years Day with a helper when it was about 30 degrees. While my helper cranked it I opened the valve on the top of fuel filters, but nothing came out. Without cranking it, I opened each of the 2 valves at the bottom and got a slow dribble of fuel, no water.
4. Thinking that the low fuel level might be below the pickup, I added 5 gal. which brought the gauge up to 1/4. No change and using the heater, even though it is not terribly cold, did nothing and it didn't leak like it had a couple of months earlier.
5. I disconnected the low pressure alarm so that I could hear, turned on the accessory switch and listened for the fuel pump. QUESTION: Can you hear the pump when it is working? I didn't hear anything, even with the fill cap off.

Before I start disconnecting lines, I thought I should ask for a little advice.

QUESTION: Is there a more positive way of testing the pump's pressure? Considering that this might be a high failure item, maybe I should replace it and have a spare? What do you folks out there think?

Arlyn

 

[steelandcanvas]

Arlyn, With the air buzzer disconnected, you should be able to hear your in tank fuel pump from inside the cab. Next time you go to the yard, take a DVM with you and check the fuse on the pump. I believe it's with the wiring assembly on the outside of the tank. Never checked one, just know it's there. Maybe someone else will step-up with some suggestions.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Yes, you should hear the pump if the low air buzzer is disconnected. Even if you hear it, it could be not working. The bottom of the pump has a habit of falling off. My pics of the pump are on the pc that stopped working today. I just posted them last week. Do a search for intank pump by 10 tires and you should be able to see my pics of the pump. I believe you have a pump failure.

 

[gimpyrobb]

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?t=29180&highlight=tank+pump

 

[cleb]

My truck didn't even have a fuse in the holder on top...I'm guessing yours worked at one time, but at least check the connections under there. Check the pressure with a gauge (I believe there is a block on top of the pump with a small port you can put one in) or look for a healthy amount of fuel coming out of the bleeder when opened. If the fuel system is in good condition (no air leaks, etc) the truck should run without the in tank pump, but may not in colder weather like your having now (Thicker fuel). My pump failed internally, works intermittently, and when its not working, makes bad noises. Anyone have a good TO?

 

[baxter]

Arlyn my fuel pump went out this fall. I was always able to here it in the cab but all of a suden it quit . the fuse is under the cap on top of the tank it is easy to check if its good then pull the pump and see if the bottom has fallen off . My pump had just died so I installed an external pump to get buy and will replace the original soon that way I will have a back up if it dies again. Good luck

Vaughn

 

[KaiserM109]

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?t=29180&highlight=tank+pump

Thanks!! Pic's are worth a thousand words, especially in this economy.

Thanks everybody else for the help and suggestions. I am always a little hesitant to start taking things apart without a manual or something or at least a little encouragement. I see a bit of RTV in one picture, so I will make sure I have some of that along too.

Jonathan, I have some ideas for the MKT-85 I’d like to fly by you sometime too.

Arlyn
Colorado

 

[cranetruck]

One gallon of fuel will raise the level about 1/4 inch in the tank. Add more fuel and make sure that all filters are drained and bled.
You may want to drain the tank first to eliminate any possibility of water too.....

 

[FMJ]

Arlyn, in addition to the pump problem, after you ran it out of fuel did you change the primary?, it might be full of crap from the bottom of the tank.

 

[rockman]

I can hear the pump inside the cab also. Mine died and I bought a rebuid kit from Sam Winers which worked well (7 years now). Drain the filters and pull the pump.

 

[KaiserM109]

Thanks for more good suggestions. I'm going over to the yard where it is stored and start working on it.

I have not done any of the PM suggested, so I have some work ahead of me.

QUESTION: If the in-tank pump fails is it completely dead? Will the injector pump suck fuel? I don't remember ever hearing the pump.

I put an in-line fuel pump on a Jeep J20 pickup that had a problem getting fuel from the tank because of the long distance and at 11,000 ft. there isn't much air pressure for a sucker pump to work with. Where would I get a 24 V. line pump?

Thanks again for all the past and future help. The folks on this site are awsome.

Arlyn
Colorado

 

[gimpyrobb]

Bring a wire with some "gator" clips on it and jump the fuse to see if it works. It really can only help if you pull the pump. They are simple to clean up and you will know if the bottom fell off. If the tank is low, it can't hurt to empty it in a 5gal bucket to get any crap suspended in the fuel out. Gimme a call if you have any questions.

 

[cleb]

As mentioned in my previous post, if the fuel system is healthy, the truck will run without the ITP working. There is a lift pump on the IP (IIRC) that moves things along. In colder weather the fuel will be thicker, and this lift pump will have a harder time. You might have air in the system from opening the bleeders, and the IP isn't liking it. Try to get the existing pump working, or get a good take out. OD Iron has a in line 24v pump (http://www.odiron.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=4_59&products_id=526).

 

[KaiserM109]

As mentioned in my previous post, if the fuel system is healthy, the truck will run without the ITP working. There is a lift pump on the IP (IIRC) that moves things along. In colder weather the fuel will be thicker, and this lift pump will have a harder time. You might have air in the system from opening the bleeders, and the IP isn't liking it. Try to get the existing pump working, or get a good take out. OD Iron has a in line 24v pump (http://www.odiron.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=4_59&products_id=526).

It was too cold to go out yesterday and barely decent today.

I flipped the accessory switch on and measured 24 Volts on the pump side of the fuse which was intact. There is no sound coming from the pump. I measured the resistance across the pump and found it to be 2K ohms. Considering that it has a 10 amp fuse, I would expect it to draw at least 1 amp, which would mean the resistance needs to be somewhere around 24 ohms.

I checked the ground connection between the pump and the frame and it is fine. My conclusion is that my pump has taken a powder. In fact, considering what cleb said, I think my pump has never worked since I picked up the truck and the combination of cold weather and air in the lines has conspired to keep it from starting.

I pulled the pump out (had to drop the tank to do so!!) and brought the batteries home for maintenance. I will start looking for a replacement. Places that come to mind are Saturn Surplus and OD Iron; any others that someone might suggest?

While I was there, the tank inspector showed up.

 

[steelandcanvas]

Jonathan, I have some ideas for the MKT-85 I’d like to fly by you sometime too.

Arlyn
Colorado

You bet Buddy, Call anytime!

 

[jasonjc]

You can buy the intank pump from the manufatcer cheaper than any where else. There info is on hear some where. It's Olympic controls.

 

[Somemedic]

As FYI my low pressure buzzer is loud, but with the the batt switch on the ITP is audible with the passenger door closed and either your ear close to the tank or with the fuel cap off. Thread ur looking for is:

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?t=24987&highlight=Olympic+controls

 

[davesbf]

ditto for what the other guys have said,also if you have fuel from summer fill up left in tank it may have only 10% kero in the mix which will gel up in lines,up to 30% kero is put in by fuel supplier for winter running.parafin wax will seperate at lower temps.also when air is in system due to runouts just bleeding fuel filters is not enough,you must also purge air from lines at injector,i found out the hard way.

 

[Firefighter294]

While I was there, the tank inspector showed up.

I'm glad to see you have some good local help to keep you in line.

Not only is he the right height to inspect the tank .. looks like he is pretty handy with a wrench.

Warm Regards,
Rick

 

[aboonski]

I just replaced mine - what a mess! I think someone ran used motor oil in this thing without filtering it! I bought the pump off of an Ebay seller but had to modify the positive wire because of it being too short to reach the top of the tank cover. My concern right now is whether the insulative materials I used in the splice will do the job or whether the diesel will break down the material over time. Sorry about the blurry photos. I soldered the two wires together then used shrink wrap insulation first and a slip-over neopreme (I think that's what it is made of anyway) cover as a second insulator. I made sure to pull the web covering over the splices area and secured it with some military green safety wire. The former owner hard wired the pump and did not have a fuse in line with the lieft pump - I made sure to install one for this installation - 7 1/2 amp slow-blow type.