Do you need a CDL for a 5 ton

[F18hornetM]

Personally I have a Class B CDL and I Recieved a Letter from my State DMV saying that Federal Regulations had changed and I now have to Supply Proof to my State DMV everty Year, that I have a DOT Medical Card for my CDL or the State will Pull my CDL and the will give me a Normal Drivers Licence in place of my CDL. This means, that you will need to get a D.O.T. Physical every one or two Years depending on your Health to keep your CDL. Factor in the Cost and Time spent getting your Physical into the Equation for getting and keeping a CDL. Also, in order to get your CDL, you will need to have a Truck that is Applicable to the Type of CDL you are getting to Test in.

My DOT physical card is only good for 2 years, have to get renewed every other year

 

[F18hornetM]

State regs may have changed but not federal regs. There is no such yearly medical card requirement in TN. You are required in TN to maintain a medical card with a CDL and will be checked if stopped by LEO or when you go to renew your DL.

Does your medical card in TN have no expiration?? It is tricky smetimes dealing with federal and state rules, Some states, like Md are more strict than the federal rules.

For what its worth, on the vehicle inspections, My shop is a mile from the scales, our trucks are inspected constantly and in the 15 years ive been shop foreman, not had one held at scales for a major violation. and Md is money hungry. So, Yes there are lots of "legal" commercial trucks out there. Its not that hard to keep them maintained. Our worst problem is the operators lose the fuse kit or cant find their triangles.

 

[LanceRobson]

I've been watching this thread for a while and think it is time to throw the flag an penalize a bunch of posters 15 yards for BS.

Federal commercial motor vehicle (CMV) and commercial driver's license (CDL) rules only count for interstate commerce. Here's the federal CMV definition:

Commercial motor vehicle means any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in interstate commerce to transport passengers or property when the vehicle—
(1) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kg (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater; or
(2) Is designed or used to transport more than 8 passengers (including the driver) for compensation; or
(3) Is designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver, and is not used to transport passengers for compensation; or
(4) Is used in transporting material found by the Secretary of Transportation to be hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and transported in a quantity requiring placarding under regulations prescribed by the Secretary under 49 CFR, subtitle B, chapter I, subchapter C.

Past that only New York State law and regulations apply here so comments and speculation that don't reference them are a waste of time and website space.

Each state is required to have CDL standards at least as stringent as federal interstate standards. What standards each state adopts for intrastate driving is it's own business.

From the NYS DOT website and referenced to the NYS DMV site:
Vehicles Requiring Commercial Driver’s Licenses

Drivers must hold CDLs if they operate in interstate, intrastate, or foreign commerce and drive a vehicle:

• With a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) or Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) of at least 26,001 pounds, whichever is greater, or a lesser GVWR or GVW the Secretary of Transportation prescribes by regulation, but not less than a GVWR of 10,001 pounds; or
• Designed to transport at least 16 passengers including the driver; or
• Transporting a quantity of hazardous materials requiring placarding.

There's that pesky word "commerce" again.


In checking the NYS DOT website and using their menu to determine if a NYS DOT physical is required the first question is whether you are engaged in commerce. If you check "NO" it tells you that you don't need a medical certificate.

However, the DMV requires a certificate to renew nearly all CDLs so if you want to renew a CDL you generally need the current medical certificate. If you don't have the certificate you'll get a regular license and be back to having to count on the non-commercial use of the truck as a shield.

With that said, NYS V&T law requires an air brake endorsement to operate a CMV (yup, COMMERCIAL motor vehicle which is defined by commercial use) with air brakes or air over hydraulic brakes. MVs such as M44 and M809 series trucks have AIR ASSITED HYDRAULIC BRAKES. Read the TMs. I suspect that you stand a good chance of getting a ticket over the issue if an officer decided that your air assisted hydraulic brakes fit the definition of air over hydraulic brakes and that you'd have to split the hair in court.

The last time I looked both NYS and DOT regulations allow a motor home of up to 54,000# GVWR to be operated without a CDL.

Another often overlooked item is that NYS DOT and DMV regulations require a tow truck endorsement to tow ANY vehicle at any time on a public road. I've never heard of that being enforced on anything other than a commercial tow rig but the law does not differentiate between them and guys like us towing a MV or dragging cousin Bubba's rust bucket to the local pick-n-pull.

I have a Class A license with double and triple trailers, tank trucks, air brakes yadda, yadda, yadda so it doesn't matter too much for me. It does matter for our 5 sons though and it would be nice to settle the issue as regards NYS rules.

So, in New York at least, the whole thing comes back to commercial use unless someone can find a different definition in V&T law, DOT regs etc. It would be nice if someone found a truly definitive answer because all the info I can find references vehicles used in commerce. If that is really the case maybe we here New York could then print off the definitions and keep them in our MVs against future need.

End of rant...

Lance

 

[F18hornetM]

Seems no matter the state, there is gray area. If you could get something from laws and rules that are clear from the states, we'd get you to work on other issues as well

 

[overlordofmars]

In New York according to their DMV any vehicle over 10,001 pounds requires a CDL.

 

[overlordofmars]

I know the New York State police wrote up one of my drivers when we had a few vehicles that we tagged in New York for a project we were building.

 

[swbradley1]

Pesky term that commercial is.

 

[m16ty]

Does your medical card in TN have no expiration?? It is tricky smetimes dealing with federal and state rules, Some states, like Md are more strict than the federal rules.

Yes they expire every two years. You're not required to notify the state when you renew though. The only time you're required to notify the state of your current medical card is when stopped by a LEO or when you renew your DL. There is no form you send in to the state.

Actually, after this discussion I pulled out my medical card and realized it's almost a year out of date . I'll take care of that ASAP on Monday but in the mean time the state hasn't pulled my CDL and if stopped I will get a ticket that will require a fine to be paid but they still won't pull my CDL.

 

[LanceRobson]

In New York according to their DMV any vehicle over 10,001 pounds requires a CDL.

Nope. No CDL is need if not in commercial use. Read the quote from the DMV's own website in post #45.

Lance

 

[LanceRobson]

I know the New York State police wrote up one of my drivers when we had a few vehicles that we tagged in New York for a project we were building.

Yup. That's because of the federal requirement making any vehicle used in interstate commerce a CMV if it weighs 10,001 or more also as written in post #45 as quoted from a US DOT website. I suspect the issue was a PA business working in NY? If you don't have a NY physical address and registrations it would seem to be interstate commerce.

One thing I sometimes wonder though is how far one can stretch the rules when transporting personal property to a swap meet or when on a pick up of a vehicle etc. Sooner or later anybody who collects just about anything is going to trade or sell something and how would a law enforcement or traffic enforcement outfit be able to determine whether you are engaged in "commerce" versus buying or selling personal property? Buying or selling personal property is certainly not commerce but how would a court see it if I have 10,000 pounds of personal property in my truck while 300 miles from home? I don't think I'm runnign contrary to federal regulation but I think I'd have to check each state I might travel in.

As far as I can see the burden of proof is going to be on the governmental agency though. I introduce myself as a collector and my MV cards (not business cards thank you very much) state that.

Has anybody run afoul of this issue? The one time I got asked about all the MV parts and hardware in my truck I kept a straight face and said I was relocating part of my private military vehicle collection. That ended the matter but I still wonder how far it could be pushed?

One time I asked a commercial vehicle enforcement cop if my F-350 could be considered a CMV if I was headed out of state to a construction job. His response was to the effect that if I carrying construction material or anything much bigger than a personal tool belt and stated that I was on an interstate business trip then I could be considered in interstate commerce. I think a lot of how this stuff affects us in the hobby may be semantics and we might be best off to be careful how we describe our uses. I've debated having magnetic signs made that read "Private military collection. Not for hire" or some such.

Lance

 

[Squirt-Truck]

Lance has touched the other "issue".
Commerce is the key, and yes ANYTHING or combination of ANYTHING over 10,001 pounds GVWR or GCWR is commercial, BUT no (except for possibly state requirements) no CDL required, BUT, must have a medical, logs (or 150 mile rule and time sheets), and pre/post trip inspection docs.

This drives our guys nuts at work. Yes an F-350 goes commercial when used in commerce.

 

[maxxplanck]

"ANYTHING over 10,001 pounds GVWR or GCWR is commercial," thats not true for Michigan.
Michigan it is dependant on use,
If you do anything commercial with it, you would need the appropriate CDL, due to it's weight ( anything over 26,000 pounds ) & air brakes.

On private use, CDL / DOT not required.
A CDL or Commercial Drivers License (in Michigan) is just that.............. Commercial.

 

[Bob USNR]

I've got a Class A CDL so all this discussion really has no bearing on me personally. It's not a bad idea to go ahead and get your CDL even if it's not required. I've had mine since I was 18.

I deal with DOT regs on a daily basis. It almost takes a lawyer to figure them all out. There are very few trucks on the road that will pass a DOT inspection 100% if they look hard enough. I even saw a brand new truck right off the dealers lot with less than 100 miles fail a DOT inspection (it was a Sterling if it matters).

As a clarification I have not dug very deep into the CDL requirements.
That said, I understand if your registration states GVWR=26000lbs, or more, you have to have a CDL. And air brake endorsement is part of that licence.

e

 

[Bob USNR]

As a clarification I have not dug very deep into the CDL requirements.
That said, I understand if your registration states GVWR=26000lbs, or more, you have to have a CDL. And air brake endorsement is part of that licence.

e

As a clarification, I have not dug very deep into the CDL requirements and I am in Virginia. I own an M817 and M35a2.
That said, I understand that the interstate rules say if your registration states GVWR=26000lbs, or more, you have to have a CDL. And air brake endorsement is required at that level of license.
I have also been told when you are stopped the police will ticket you based on your weight, at that moment, as it compares to your registered GVWR number on your registration card.
They don't seem to care if you have a 1 ton truck with 5 or 10 tons of stuff in it as long as you are registered (have paid the fees) for that GVWR.

And just for icing on this cake I understand if you are ticketed, on a CDL, for ANYTHING, Virginia gives you TWICE the points and fines as they will to a lower licensed person.
e

 

[mikester]

Well guys, I feel like an idiot now ! Ive seen this truck from a distance a dozen times. Never standing still. I was driving through town the other day and in the distance I see the kid parking in a McDonalds. I pull in to get a closer look at the truck. Not for any other reason but to look at the truck since it looks mint every time Ive seen it. Its not a 5 ton. Its an M35A3 with new super singles on it. THATS why the kid can drive it around town ! This is one lucky kid. My daughter told me he drives it to school every day. Im jealous !!!!

 

[swbradley1]

Problem solved.

Now maybe we can get to the really important questions.

How much to insure a Deuce?
How do I get my truck titled?
How do I buy from GL?
How do I roll a Deuce over?

 

[m16ty]

Problem solved.

Now maybe we can get to the really important questions.

How much to insure a Deuce?
How do I get my truck titled?
How do I buy from GL?
How do I roll a Deuce over?

1) quite a bit
2) go to the DMV
3) bid early and bid often
4) ask Gimpy

 

[Wolfen]

 

[Augdog1964]

Fyi

Guys,

FYI, I own RV dealerships... and we sell air brake diesel motorhomes all day, over 30,000 lbs. in weight, and they need no CDL, or airbrake endorsement anywhere in the United States. Now if my guys must drive the motorhome to deliver it for my business, and they are being PAID to do so, they must have a logbook, and a CDL class B... if pulling a trailer, a CDL class A...

The difference is personal use vs. commercial paid. I don't know all the states requirements, but know there is no requirement in any state for special licensing to drive a diesel MH. I don't know at least in IN, OH, KY of any specific exclusions written into the MV code for RVs.

 

[bonshawman]

I can just SEE the protests if States attempted to remove the RV exemptions.....

circles of RVS.....awnings out.....slide outs extended.....leveling jacks pushing mushrooms into the asphalt.....

why, it would look like a Walmart parking lot !