Dog fish update??

[WWRD99]

Ok, this is my first post about my 86 blazer I got several months ago...I have been able to figure out most everything on it and it does run great. It is pretty stock so far minus this relay thing. The one weird thing I have, which I have seen others with online, is a starter relay bolted under the ash tray.

I get that the stock relay melts and the starter won't stop turning. What I have is the black wire, that I pointed to, is not hooked up and after I turn on the key to heat up the plugs you touch that wire to the other side of the relay to get the starter to turn over...you can see the burn marks on the nut on the relay...Is this a mod that is a milspec back yard thing?

I got a stuck relay which is pretty obvious but was curious if there was more to this than replacing a relay?? The black wire that is not hooked up runs through the floor right to the starter...cute huh. I have some wiring to do correctly to fix this right.
Thanks!
Rich.

 

[cucvrus]

Basically someone hacked the wiring system. I found out thru the years if you keep good strong batteries and you maintain the stock system you will little or no issues with the stock relay.

I have never done any relay alterations and in fact have changed a few back to the stock relay. I had a friend make me a small cube relay that plugged right into the stock harness and it was perfect. My point is if something fails after all these years it must have been a good design to last this long. Fix the issue with standard replacement parts and move on. But find the cause of the failure. Low amperage batteries, extended cranking time to start, bad starter.

I don't need a huge Ford relay with + energy on both sides and in the middle shoved up under a steel - dash board. I also not want electrical tape or liquid tape to deal with in the event I must revisit that area. As simple plug and play is up mu line. But yes you have issues in the wiring. Were are the 2 relays that are supposed to be there in the connectors? Sometime come this way and I will assist you with a few of the issues. Note up front I don't do any hacking so if it is hacked and needs work it will need to be fixed and that cost money. Advise is free. Take care and Happy New Year 2021.

 

[Keith_J]

First, download the technical manuals, I recommend the TM9-2320-289-34. The wiring diagrams are in appendix E. The ignition switch is on the steering column. Test the switch for function of 12 volts to the solenoid terminal .Trace the solenoid terminal on the switch to the solenoid you pictured above. This energizes the solenoid which then sends 24 volts to the solenoid on the starter.
The pictured solenoid should have 24 volts to one of the large terminals, the other should go to the starter.

 

[WWRD99]

First, download the technical manuals, I recommend the TM9-2320-289-34. The wiring diagrams are in appendix E. The ignition switch is on the steering column. Test the switch for function of 12 volts to the solenoid terminal .Trace the solenoid terminal on the switch to the solenoid you pictured above. This energizes the solenoid which then sends 24 volts to the solenoid on the starter.
The pictured solenoid should have 24 volts to one of the large terminals, the other should go to the starter.

It does what it's supposed to unfortunately the new relay is stuck on! I guess they let the china smoke out of it...the guy at the yard in Chambersburg where I got it said it stuck on for him and he ripped the wire off the relay...they were jump starting it at the time with the huge yard loader...so now you can turn it over any time you want without the key! I didn't think military vehicles were supposed to have keys...anyhow I already swapped a tilt steering column in it so I can fit my legs under the steering wheel and it had a good key for the ignition switch so now that locks too. I would like to keep this pretty stock as possible other than the tilt...just find it odd that a huge starter relay was hanging under the cig tray!

 

[WWRD99]

Basically someone hacked the wiring system. I found out thru the years if you keep good strong batteries and you maintain the stock system you will little or no issues with the stock relay.

I have never done any relay alterations and in fact have changed a few back to the stock relay. I had a friend make me a small cube relay that plugged right into the stock harness and it was perfect. My point is if something fails after all these years it must have been a good design to last this long. Fix the issue with standard replacement parts and move on. But find the cause of the failure. Low amperage batteries, extended cranking time to start, bad starter.

I don't need a huge Ford relay with + energy on both sides and in the middle shoved up under a steel - dash board. I also not want electrical tape or liquid tape to deal with in the event I must revisit that area. As simple plug and play is up mu line. But yes you have issues in the wiring. Were are the 2 relays that are supposed to be there in the connectors? Sometime come this way and I will assist you with a few of the issues. Note up front I don't do any hacking so if it is hacked and needs work it will need to be fixed and that cost money. Advise is free. Take care and Happy New Year 2021.

Yeah it's been hacked up a bit...I don't see any of those twist caps that you use on house electric but that might be about it when it comes to this starter thing...if that stock relay is still available and not a poc I would like to get one fixed up in there...it's not to hard but I know so many parts are beyond junk that it does make it tough to make it ok...I understand why they'd do the big relay thing...much larger contacts and less chance of welding together...mine still did though! I was really wondering since I got this surplus and hasn't been in civ hands before was this repair a sanctioned thing? Like there's and update somewhere saying to do this? I don't know what that's called in milspec terms! Once this weather breaks and I get this truck inspected we will head up quick on a nice day...son is biting at the bit to see all the stuff!!

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

I was really wondering since I got this surplus and hasn't been in civ hands before was this repair a sanctioned thing?

Nope. That's backyard engineering at its... well, not worst, but it's pretty bad. Check out the Doghead Mod thread and you'll see it can be done neatly.

However, you can use any good quality automotive relay there. It only draws 9 amps, so a good 30 amp relay will do nicely. There's no need to use the massive 100 amp relay.


Since a few people (like you) have had stuck relays even after doing the Doghead mod, I suspect that Rick may be on the right track with his comments about keeping the batteries in good shape. It may be that this relay configuration has problems when the voltage gets marginal. He sure has fewer problems and more experience than most of us, so it's just barely possible that he knows what he's talking about.

Put that sucker back to a stock configuration and life will be easier. Like Keith said, download the TMs. Look at the top of the forum and you'll find them. The Helpful Threads sticky is a great resource, too.

 

[WWRD99]

Nope. That's backyard engineering at its... well, not worst, but it's pretty bad. Check out the Doghead Mod thread and you'll see it can be done neatly.

However, you can use any good quality automotive relay there. It only draws 9 amps, so a good 30 amp relay will do nicely. There's no need to use the massive 100 amp relay.


Since a few people (like you) have had stuck relays even after doing the Doghead mod, I suspect that Rick may be on the right track with his comments about keeping the batteries in good shape. It may be that this relay configuration has problems when the voltage gets marginal. He sure has fewer problems and more experience than most of us, so it's just barely possible that he knows what he's talking about.

Put that sucker back to a stock configuration and life will be easier. Like Keith said, download the TMs. Look at the top of the forum and you'll find them. The Helpful Threads sticky is a great resource, too.

Ok that was my main problem or issue...I have seen some stuff before but not that...I found the mod thread earlier today but it didn't talk about what I have. My thought on the relay burning up on low batteries is simple...there isn't enough power to pull and hold the relay magnet shut...the other is cheap parts and assembly...most relays I have found the contacts are only touching corners and not the entire plunger face...it's only a matter of time until it welds itself or blacks out...then the hammer touch wakes it up for a bit. If a basic gm 4 or 5 prong relay will work I have some good ones in the shop already...9 amps is not a lot to control. I pop the starter solenoid off the dash and see what's inside.
Thanks!
Rich.

 

[WWRD99]

I jumped outside quick since it's kinda nice out...I found that the wires are all there but the one purple wire that is supposed to go to the starter is not hooked up...wire is just coiled up under the hood too...I don't have a stock connector and couldn't find it so far...are there any out there or similar that fit the stock relay? How's that starter wire goin through the floor...100% silicone means it's good to go!!...the burn marks on the solenoid are nice too. Plan is to replace the connector and purple wire that goes to the starter...had a good bit of voltage drop.
Thanks!
Rich.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[cucvrus]

12 Volt battery state of charge chart and info (mmbalmainauto.com.au)
I posted this thread because many people fail to realize that a 12 volt battery may have 12 volts and still only be 25% charged. The link I posted shows the chart and rate of charge. I get fooled from time to time with equipment and lawn mowers. I get out my gauge and check and it has 12.28 volts. That is only 60% charged. Just putting that out there when you mention relays and starters binding. Food for thought. I also highly recommend the load test of each battery. Good Luck.

 

[WWRD99]

12 Volt battery state of charge chart and info (mmbalmainauto.com.au)
I posted this thread because many people fail to realize that a 12 volt battery may have 12 volts and still only be 25% charged. The link I posted shows the chart and rate of charge. I get fooled from time to time with equipment and lawn mowers. I get out my gauge and check and it has 12.28 volts. That is only 60% charged. Just putting that out there when you mention relays and starters binding. Food for thought. I also highly recommend the load test of each battery. Good Luck.

100% !! I think the state of charge was one of the first things I was taught in school...actually had a great learning experience too just that day!! Had a kid put the charger on a battery and he used the start function of the charger...because that's where you start charging the battery...he then went to class...hour later comes back and a good bit of the area had this weird smell...he doesn't think anything of it and removes the charger cable...it sparks!! He said wow that was neat!!....and does it again touching the battery post to spark again...He probably still can't hear out of his left ear and has scars from the acid and plastic chards that covered him...had to repaint the car it was in too...he never checked the acid level either...I have learned over the years that even the best teacher can be bested by a very untrained student!! I have been a big acid tester until they went sealed and now use the load tester as much as possible...battery temp is the other part of the scale too...I used to put pennies on top of the battery back when they were copper to keep things clean. The good ol days.