Dual circuit brake using pinion and wheel brakes.

[red]

To cover both emergency brakes and a long term parking brake could use the rotors from a Chevy 2500 pickup with eldorado calipers. Nice and thick rotors that are cheap/easy to replace, with a mechanical parking brake built in.

 

[welldigger]

I think I'm going to try making a "last resort" brake and I'll see how it works. I'm thinking 2x rotors (12") with 2 calipers each. Both rotors mounted to the center axle's pinion. If it works and ever gets used, then replacement rotors should be all that's required.

Eh I'd think 4 rotors at minimum. It's not clamping force that's the problem. It's heat dissipation.

 

[red]

2 is much better than the stock setup, but more is even better

 

[welldigger]

2 is much better than the stock setup, but more is even better

For a parking brake yes. For an OMG brake no. At least if you were going highway speed and have larger tires.

 

[red]

I'd argue that. Yes the rotors will probably warp and need to be turned but they would stop the truck faster.

But, more rotors helps spread the load and reduce the heat

 

[rustystud]

The only problem now is how are you going to apply all the calipers at the same time with mechanical linkages ?

 

[welldigger]

The only problem now is how are you going to apply all the calipers at the same time with mechanical linkages ?

Aron wants to use a hydraulic e brake.

 

[peashooter]

Aaron check out this site. At work we had these on our older 40ft busses. They can almost bring a fully loaded bus to a complete stop. They make them for all kinds of applications.
http://www.telmausa.com/products/operating-principle

I contacted Telma since I like this idea. Unfortunately they start at $4500.

The only problem now is how are you going to apply all the calipers at the same time with mechanical linkages ?

I think I will try a hydraulic emergency brake handle. That way if there was ever an "Oh Crap" moment with loss of service brakes, I could just pull this thing to engage the pinion brakes, pull the stock parking brake, and then still have my feet and hands to steer, and work on down shifting.


Since the front axle doesn't look to have enough clearance from the oil pan, I don't think having pinion brakes there would work for us.... or they would be really small rotors. Plus if you have lockout hubs then pinions wouldn't work if hubs were unlocked. The rear axle doesn't appear to have much clearance for large rotors either. Looking at my truck, I think a larger disc could hit the frame cross-member (followed immediately by my freshwater tank)
I think the center axle would have clearance for a 12" rotor on the front and rear side of the diff.

Here is what I'm wanting to accomplish:
-simple add on (a day or less)
-$500 or less for the whole set up
-Largest/thickest discs possible
-No interference, or modification of any existing stuff
-as many off the self easily purchased parts as possible (calipers, pads, rotors, hoses, Tees, remote brake lever or pedal, etc)
-ability to stop the truck ONE TIME as fast as possible. Benchmark would be a dual circuit deuce operating with only 1 circuit (ex: front brakes only)


Honestly, this project isn't at the top of my priorities. I just thought it would be nice for many folks that have a single circuit truck and would like some type of backup for that one emergency situation that you hopefully never have. I don't know if it will work well enough to be worth the cost and effort. It is something I've thought about for a few years but never really went further than that.

**I will be trying this on my truck but If anyone else with a 6x6 stock m35a2 cargo deuce, anal-retentive personality, spare time, and a willingness to do some experimenting with brake stopping distances (including plugging the rear brake line at the tee on the frame above the spare tire) wants to help me out, just send me a PM. I'll donate whatever mounting brackets and hardware are needed, you would just need to buy the purchased parts. Prices so far are: $35/rotor (2x), $60/caliper-4 piston (2x or 4x?), ~$100 brake lever (could be a remote pedal if you prefer also).

 

[red]

If you need a guinea pig in about 2-3 months I'm down. Gotta get moved, find a new job, and settled in first

 

[IsaLandr]

Where can you get a maxi can and a air brake caliper?

Not to step on any toes, and certainly not to try to hijack the thread, but... Just about any medium and heavy truck manufacturer that deals in Europe will have these parts. They went to air discs as standard instead of drums DECADES ago. If somebody wanted to install an air-powered driveline disc brake, or even convert their entire vehicle over to discs at all wheels, it's not hard to find the parts to do so. Even Meritor right here in the US provides air discs on some axles.

I'm not out to be argumentative here. The reality is that disc brakes are quieter, more reliable, cooler, more efficient, easier to maintain, and less expensive to work on, than their drum equivalents. We've known this for a great many years.

Here is a very good article on the subject:
http://www.todaystrucking.com/whats-stopping-you-the-4-1-1-on-air-disc-brakes

If a person wanted to put air discs on his driveline, it's definitely within the realm of possibilities. And would certainly work better than the other suggestions that have been made.

 

[ke5eua]

Not air but disc conversions. Brace yourself, pretty pricey in my eyes.

http://www.gearharteng.com/#

Not to step on any toes, and certainly not to try to hijack the thread, but... Just about any medium and heavy truck manufacturer that deals in Europe will have these parts. They went to air discs as standard instead of drums DECADES ago. If somebody wanted to install an air-powered driveline disc brake, or even convert their entire vehicle over to discs at all wheels, it's not hard to find the parts to do so. Even Meritor right here in the US provides air discs on some axles.

I'm not out to be argumentative here. The reality is that disc brakes are quieter, more reliable, cooler, more efficient, easier to maintain, and less expensive to work on, than their drum equivalents. We've known this for a great many years.

Here is a very good article on the subject:
http://www.todaystrucking.com/whats-stopping-you-the-4-1-1-on-air-disc-brakes

If a person wanted to put air discs on his driveline, it's definitely within the realm of possibilities. And would certainly work better than the other suggestions that have been made.

 

[red]

Not air but disc conversions. Brace yourself, pretty pricey in my eyes.

http://www.gearharteng.com/#

You can do disk brakes per axle at about $600. F750 rotors with F550 calipers.

 

[IsaLandr]

Not air but disc conversions. Brace yourself, pretty pricey in my eyes.

http://www.gearharteng.com/#

Yeah. Doing the conversion is expensive, to be sure. What's kind of silly is that, from a manufacturing perspective, discs are cheaper to produce and less costly to install in the first place than drums. But we're still doing drums anyway.

If I had the money, I'd swap over to air discs without a second thought. Everything I have would be all-disc. It's a no brainer. Well, if money were no object.

 

[ke5eua]

If money was no object I would own all the M1070's, lol

Yeah. Doing the conversion is expensive, to be sure. What's kind of silly is that, from a manufacturing perspective, discs are cheaper to produce and less costly to install in the first place than drums. But we're still doing drums anyway.

If I had the money, I'd swap over to air discs without a second thought. Everything I have would be all-disc. It's a no brainer. Well, if money were no object.

 

[rustystud]

Yeah. Doing the conversion is expensive, to be sure. What's kind of silly is that, from a manufacturing perspective, discs are cheaper to produce and less costly to install in the first place than drums. But we're still doing drums anyway.

If I had the money, I'd swap over to air discs without a second thought. Everything I have would be all-disc. It's a no brainer. Well, if money were no object.

Actually drum brakes still have there place. Our busses still use drum brakes. In the 1990's we did try to use disc brakes on the busses. It was a failure. Industry wide on large trucks they have gone back to drum brakes. One of the reasons is the amount of pressure needed to stop a disc rotor. Remember in cars your using hydraulic pressure which reaches over 1000psi. In a truck your using air pressure which is only 120psi tops. So most "air calipers" are actually "air over hydraulic" systems . In the past some manufactures have used a bizarre cam-over system using brake cans but they didn't work well at all.
IsaLandr, don't you think manufactures would go to the cheapest most reliable system ? Like you said "it's a no brainer" .

 

[Nitrodiver]

Has anyone actually done any of the things discussed in this thread? I’m interested to know the results, if there are any?.....