Dual wheels on front of a deuce

[11Echo]

Been a year so, let's all enjoy the thread and video some more!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGVtphf-8CA

 

[bsorcs]

11E,

Thanks for the re-run! I particularly like the front fenders and the spiffy little turn signals. Gotta love those Brits!

 

[rolling18]

update time!
I have run duallys in front with a "twist" I have the 395's and mounted the stock shorter tires/ wheels on outside and since the sit a good 4-5" off the ground, the dont make it any harder / increase wear on front drive/ steer parts.

BUT, in the soft stuff (snow, sand, mud, ect.. when the 395's start to sink the "backup" tires add to widen the footprint! preventing further sinking!

 

[rustystud]

update time!
I have run duallys in front with a "twist" I have the 395's and mounted the stock shorter tires/ wheels on outside and since the sit a good 4-5" off the ground, the dont make it any harder / increase wear on front drive/ steer parts.

BUT, in the soft stuff (snow, sand, mud, ect.. when the 395's start to sink the "backup" tires add to widen the footprint! preventing further sinking!

I would like to see some pictures of that !

 

[Tow4]

I would like to see some pictures of that !

+1

 

[gringeltaube]

...... since the sit a good 4-5" off the ground, ............................

Unbelievable...!
Let's see: even at 50psi the loaded radius of a 395/85R20 on the front axle is less than 22". A half-worn 9.00-20 NDCC is 40.5" in diameter, or little over 20", radius.
So, on a firm surface it would be off the ground yes, but more like two inches, at most.

BUT, in the soft stuff (snow, sand, mud, ect.. when the 395's start to sink the "backup" tires add to widen the footprint! preventing further sinking!

Let's look at this one, too: on the front (of a Deuce W/winch) the contact area of a typical (load range G) 395/85R20, aired down to 20psi is nearly twice as much as that from the same tire, at 50psi. In comparison, that skinny 9:00-20 - besides being a diagonal-ply - would only contribute with 1/3 of the "footprint" of the single 395 @ 50psi; or 1/6 of the same @ 20psi, in the best case.
So not much gain really, for all the extra work involved, IMHO...

And let me add this here: the original steering mechanism on a Deuce "works OK" in stock form, with single stock tires; the same is barely acceptable when running super-singles; but it is certainly NOT strong enough to withstand the leverage created by running duals - and eventually hitting an obstacle! (see this picture...)


G.

 

[Carlo]

I wonder what that steers like?

 

[11Echo]

Running different sizes on the duals been done before. Back in 2009 begekky3 was running 1100x22.5's on the front and on the inside duals while running 9.00x20's on the outside. It was his "mileage conservation mode". Long distance trips he sometimes pulled the rear driveshaft too. As pictured and in the thread linked below, it pulled pretty good also.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?35893-help-in-ohio&p=392041&highlight=#post392041

 

[rustystud]

"Wow! This power steering is great ! Wait a minute ! I don't have power steering ! Why are we turning left ?"

 

[frank8003]

TM 9-801 April 1944 page 366

Section XXXVWHEELS, TIRES, AND HUBS197. WHEELS.a. Front.(1) ALL VEHICLES EXCEPT CHASSIS SERIAL No. CCKW 353*236404-2 TO 236520-2 (fig. 190). Each disc-type front wheel ismounted on six hub studs, and is held in place with inner nuts whichthread directly on studs. Outer nuts, which permit installation ofdual wheels, thread over inner nuts.
View attachment TM 9-801_1944 duals on front.pdf

 

[11Echo]

Been a while so, let's all enjoy the thread and video some more!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGVtphf-8CA

 

[JohnnyBM931A2]

Cool thread I especially like the pic of the M939 series truck with dual wheels up front

 

[Wildchild467]

Im thinking about putting duals on the front of my deuce when I take it to the sand dunes next month. I see the picture of the broken steering box shaft and it makes me cringe. I will be a lot easier on my truck , so I am hoping I will not break anything. Sand is a hard one to navigate through but I think if I take it easy, I might be ok. Like the one gentleman said, he was in a deep hole and heavy on the throttle.

I am in search for a set of bud nuts and lug nuts so I can put some duals on the front for the trip if anybody wants to give me a good deal on some. I will report my findings how the duals do in sand if I can get the bud nuts/lug nuts.

 

[brian s]

Im thinking about putting duals on the front of my deuce when I take it to the sand dunes next month. I see the picture of the broken steering box shaft and it makes me cringe. I will be a lot easier on my truck , so I am hoping I will not break anything. Sand is a hard one to navigate through but I think if I take it easy, I might be ok. Like the one gentleman said, he was in a deep hole and heavy on the throttle.

I am in search for a set of bud nuts and lug nuts so I can put some duals on the front for the trip if anybody wants to give me a good deal on some. I will report my findings how the duals do in sand if I can get the bud nuts/lug nuts.

If you have a 1 inch impact I have some you can have pm me if you want them.

 

[M543A2]

Here in north central Indiana we have clay that is very sticky when wet. We find with our farm tractor, combine, and truck duals that if the spacing between them is not really wide the center will pack full of mud to the point you are then basically trying to get treadless lawn rollers through deep mud. No traction, just trying to push a lot of mud out of the way so you might as well stop and go get a tow vehicle. Truck duals are definitely not spaced wide enough to shed the mud out of between the wheels. Our combines have 12" between the tire sidewalls which will shed the mud. If you want duals to go through our kind, and I suspect many other kinds of sticky mud or deep, hard snow, you need chains. Duals also do not do well in hard blizzard wind-set snow in my experience. Without chains they try to push too much snow. Singles are much better in both snow and mud in my experience from many years of fighting mud and snow on the farm with no choice because the crop and or livestock had to be taken care of in a timely manner regardless of conditions. With that said about sticky mud and hard snow, I am sure there are other unusual conditions where duals help, but my personal preference would be to not put them on the front for any reason. One warning, fatal consequences can happen for the driveline of any piece of equipment if the wheels start to chatter in snow, dirt, or sand imparting a fierce vibration into drive line components. Get the clutch down quickly and try to ease into it again. Just my preferences and experience, others may be different!

 

[Wildchild467]

I had my truck starting to jump when I was in the sand a couple weeks ago. I just dug deeper in the transmission and it went away. One thing I see on the sand dunes is that flotation is key. I think aired down duals will work very well in the sand with a responsible driver. if the wheels are dished out and you hit something, the steering wheel might want to break your wrist. I think it is worth a try putting duals on, I will just have to drive slow at first and see how it is.

 

[Wildchild467]

Well I went to Silver Lake Sand Dunes this past weekend. I first drove on the sand with my aired down (35 PSI) 9.00-20 radial commercial street tires (firestone) and 20% tread NDTs on the rear aired down to 10 PSI. The truck did very well getting around but still would not climb any somewhat steep grades. I was fine and never got stuck. I wish I had some angle gauge to give numbers as to when I couldnt slimb anymore so you all knew the max grade I could climb.... but I don't Ill try to bring one with me, find a hill and estimate what the angle was. Either way, I did fine knowing my limitations for the truck.

I also installed duals on the front just to see how they would be on the sand. The biggest problem with singles on the front was that all the weight would just let the front dig more in the sand. The duals in the front might have helped a little bit more, but not enough where I really noticed a big difference. If I was going out on the sand again, I wouldn't use duals at all. The biggest drawback to the duals is the time to put them on, more tires to air down, an absolute pain to steer with manual steering and it is very wide. It looked impressive, but it wasn't really that much better in the sand.

What I found worked best was the air down the tires as low as one possible dares to go. The TM states 15 PSI in the sand, but 15 SPI with my radial tires in the front would have been almost too low. They were already very, very soft. I never tried 30 PSI in the front, but the last thing I wanted to do was pinch a tube bouncing or have a tire spin on the rim and rip the valve stem off. Not saying it would happen but at 220 miles away from home, I wanted to play it easy.

Another thing that helped was speed. Now I know the word speed and Deuce do not go together very well, but It helped. For normal driving around, 3rd gear (low range) was good. I didn't have to worry about the engine EGT getting hot and it was not bouncy. If I wanted to climb a hill that was relatively smooth (I didn't like bouncing in the sand ruts), I would wind it out in 3rd gear, shift to 4th and try to keep the RPM's up while watching EGT. The engine is working hard at this point. I was able to get to the top of one hill driving up the "spine" of the hill what is less steep than going straight up the hill like all the quads and side-by-sides. At the end of the day, the truck is a fat girl. She doesn't like to go in the sand and prefers harder surfaces. Maybe some 395 tires could have helped, not sure. As you all know, its about light weight, low ground PSI and speed. None of which the Deuce has. All in all, it did fine. Just try not to bounce it hard, avoid spinning the wheels that makes the wheels "hop" and dont expect the truck to go where you turn the wheel. Sand is mushy and if you are on any bit of side hill, it will want to go that way a little bit. I avoided steep side hills because I didn't want to take any chances rolling the truck. It was a fun time and people loved seeing it on the dunes. I couldn't count all of the thumbs up I got. It was a great weekend!

 

[74M35A2]

It is good you tried both. If you think singles were better, and later generation cargo trucks all went to single wheels, will you next remove your rear inner or outer wheels and try again? should do even better from your findings.....

BTW, 11.00 singles make that truck look sweetchuck !!!

Yes, flotation is the key, and there is no way a 12,000lb truck is going to float. Conquering sand requires a high hp/weight ratio like you see with Polaris Razors and such. Mil cargo trucks are just about the opposite. Glad you could enjoy most of it though. It sounds mostly like learning how to maneuver sand vs anything else, as you are doing better than your previous recent trip there.

Thank for sharing.

 

[DJones]

It looks so cool!

 

[frank8003]

This is older than Me
Still like it

View attachment TM 9-801.pdf