Duals on M929A2

[tobyS]

Me either Wes. We be friends. The rims look great with the 5 ton, but the size of the pilot on our 939 hubs does not catch the second wheel. Any looseness in the outer bolt will let it move ever so little, but potentially enough to make a difference. I don't want to weld to my hub.

I set up a hub manufacturing company in Ohio, moved from Tennessee, so I do understand hub design. The above nut would be my first choice, which I agree with Mos68x to avoid trying to modify the hub and instead do work to the rim holes.

Please do me a favor and use calipers to measure the bolt hole on the rim as it presently is.

I would expect to make a tool to resize the hole and bevel it, piloted off the existing hole. I'm taking a leap of faith that they got the bolt holes reasonably close to their target location and that simply reaming them out would work fine. I'll consult with a friend to confirm a simple ream tool could be used.

I need the actual hole diameter in that rim and have sent request for specs on the nut in the link above. My guess is, that for $100, I can buy the tool to make them bolt piloted and not have to change the stud length. What do you think about the above linked aluminum to aluminum nut and opening the rim holes to fit?

 

[simp5782]

Even if you bevel it and try to use thimbles with the overall thread length on a 5 ton stud @ 1 - 3/16". You arent going to have much meat on the bone with the wheel being 1inch thick. You may want a 1.375 or 2in stud length unless you can bevel down half way.

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[Mos68x]

Even if you bevel it and try to use thimbles with the overall thread length on a 5 ton stud @ 1 - 3/16". You arent going to have much meat on the bone with the wheel being 1inch thick. You may want a 1.375 or 2in stud length unless you can bevel down half way.

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Shoot, on the stock stud my nuts only have 3/8" of threads showing. Even if I was to run just one of those wheels I would have to change the studs anyways. If I'm gonna have to do that I might as well see if I can get studs with a minimum of 4" in threaded length.

I was thinkin, instead of usin lug nuts to center up the inner wheel, I can use some sleeves for the studs that have a wide beveled face instead. I would have to have some shop turn them for me and might be expensive, but at least if the drum got scrapped they still wouldn't be permanent and we could make the face as this as we want for additional spacing. Of course for that to work the holes in the rims would have to be at least an inch. It also depends on how long of studs we can get for the 3/4-16 thread too. That though I think will require a call to Euclid instead.

 

[tobyS]

Mos68x, I don't understand what you mean about a spacer with a bevel. The wheel doesn't have a bevel unless you put one in it. As for spacers, the one above that I made from DOM is the right inner and outer diameter, assuming the dual bud is the same as my Henderson steel singles (hub piloted)(1" straight bolt holes).

The thimble is 3.08" and has about 1.9" of inside thread. I'll estimate 3/4" can go into the inside wheel, so there would be be 7/16 of OEM stud past the first wheel. That's 1 1/16" of thread contact. I'm not so sure I wouldn't try them stock. The stud could be up to 3/4" longer without bottoming out in the thimble, but I don't see that it's necessary with that much inner thread contact.

On a side note, I'm listening to canning lids pop down from making black raspberry jelly. Yummy

 

[simp5782]

http://truckhub.us/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/Euclid100DWheelAttachingPartsX-Ref.96161249.pdf

 

[Mos68x]

Sorry Toby, yes the pic above is what I had meant, but if I had wanted to space it out some (not ideal) then I was referring to having a flat spacer behind it that could be beveled if we wanted it to. Which DOM tubing happened to be the right ID and OD?

Wes, Thats the same file I found and used to look for the stock part numbers. I was hoping to find the stock p/n to get an idea the dimensions for the rest of the stud, the part of it in the hub and drum. Then using those numbers I might be able to find longer studs to fit the wheels you talked about.

 

[simp5782]

Napa WA2278 and WA2279 are the 5 ton stud numbers. They have the specs

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[tobyS]

I bought a 48" piece that is 1.00" outside and .75" inside. Thus a sleeve can be made to any length, like 2" to fit through both wheels.

I note that the stud Wes referenced is Euclid no E-5721 L and R (same except knurl length) and that in that same size, up to a 4" bolt is available. That puts the part in the hub at 1 3/16 and the threads past the hub face at 1 3/16 for the OEM bolt.

Going down in that same style, while the bolts get longer, the thread length is not longer. Thus on the 4" long one, the body that is .974 in diameter is longer 2 7/16" and the knurl is also longer to 1 5/8". So a good bit (about 1 1/4") of the shank with longer knurl (which is about 1.0" OD) will protrude past the hub. The point being, the 4.0" stud has nearly enough body diameter and knurl to fill the 1' hole in not only the inner wheel but go into the outer one by 1/4". Thus no spacer would seem to be required and no milling of either part may be required.

If 1 3/16" is inside the hub, then the 4" bolt would protrude 2 13/16 past the hub or 13/16 past the outer wheel. That's just enough to get a standard lug nut on and if there was a small chamfer, would act like stud centered, centering on the hole at the shank and with the nut.

It appears using the Euclid number E-5722 L & R and making a small chamfer will not require the holes to be made bigger, but will provide the 1" body to fill the wheel hole and "center" on the stud securely, both inner and outer wheel. Note this is the longest of Euclid's standard bolts and not a "special".

The alternative is the thimble (E-597) and making the wheel hole larger...which appears to be a lot more work than the 4" available stud with the long shank. It uses the std lug nuts too.

Thus 20 of each E-5722 L and 20 of E-5722 R would appear to be the correct way to secure them and not require machining (other than a small 49* chamfer).

Of course this all based on the assumption that the wheel hole is 1.0".... and we know what is said about assumptions.

 

[tobyS]

I do expect to use my truck in winter on roads that may have some clean areas, so the difference in revolutions per mile, using the 12.00 in the rear and 395's front, concerns me. I'm considering the 12.00's on the front also.

I read the thread about weight rating, using them on an 819, where it was said the rims should generally be 2" wider than the tire section.

Plenty of the dumps used 11.00 G177 (on budd wheels) so I'm not as concerned with weight rating as having a correct rim. Will the 12.00 G272 fit on a combat rim (10") (or another with less back space) to be used on the front?

 

[simp5782]

Click the tire brochure link in that other thread it says up to 9.25. They would mount up im sure. I have seen 11.00 xzl tires on 11 in wide SEE wheels. Tire is 12.3 wide so a ten inch wide wheel

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[tobyS]

Thanks Wes, I really didn't see how it would fit, but with the longer shaft on the bolt, is very close to the wheel hole size. It's not the 3/4 threads.... it's the .970 stud shaft extending through the first wheel and into the second that keeps it in place (piloted by the bolt).

In thinking about the nut, I like the Euclid E-5554, but they would have to be machined to a pilot 1" from 1 1/8". That would reduce the need for a large chamfer to about 1/8 - 3/16" on the rim. What had you planned for the outer nut?

 

[tobyS]

Here is another idea for the outer nut. It uses the inner sleeve and washer with the OEM 9/16" nut. Then would not require chamfer to the rims and it would have a large bearing area.

 

[simp5782]

I mounted up a 395 XML today on the dual type wheel. XMLs are 15.3" wide according to specs. I didn't have a tape measure handy today.

 

[Jbulach]

Wheels are 1inch thick. These are the studs you will need and lug nuts. 4inch long overall. My mockup had a half inch spacer behind the inner tire to sit it out further. So the 4inch stud would be enough.


If you want to run 395 duals. My suggestion to cut down on width is to run the aluminum Hutchinson inside with a 1 inch spacer behind it. Then using a stock LMTV wheel but knocking all the long beadlock studs out and swapping to the short stubs they use for CTIS all The way around. This gives you the flat face and it will mate to the hutchinson wheel. This mounting would work cause the other beadlock ring would slip over the beadlock face of the inner wheel allowing it to get closer. And 6in studs View attachment 686471View attachment 686472View attachment 686473View attachment 686474

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Hey Wes,

I'm assuming you needed the 1/2" spacer behind the inner wheel to clear the trunnion cap? How much clearance did the 1/2" spacer give you?

 

[simp5782]

Hey Wes,

I'm assuming you needed the 1/2" spacer behind the inner wheel to clear the trunnion cap? How much clearance did the 1/2" spacer give you?

I haven't done it its just the math after measuring the wheel face on the hub to the trunion then adding the overall tire width to the interior

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[simp5782]

Purchasing some 12.00-20s from a distributor. These are Chinese made but oh well. I am going to try them out. New, not recaps. Ratings say good for 100,000 miles. but i dunno about that. They have 18 and 20ply rating variants. Can be ran with tubes or without. I will probably put them back on stock 5 ton wheels. We haven't set the purchase in stone yet cause I am comparing some other tires they have. Like the 13R22.5s but they have not gotten me a price on those yet.
They do come in 9.00 and 1100s as well for 20inch wheels.
The 1200s will let me keep the 395s on the front.
The 13R22.5s which would allow someone to dual up the rear with 48.5" tall tires and run 14.00s on the front of a truck. a 13R22.5 is 326mm wide and a 12.00R20 is 324mm wide so they are 1.25" inch wider per tire than 11.00R20s. just about.

Other option I have looked at but isn't cheap but maybe it could be once you factor in all the other crap like specific wheels, studs, lug nuts on the beadlock type wheels is going to 12.00-24s like off the 920 trucks. and run a 14.00 in the front. 1200-24 tires are not cheap either.

 

[Jbulach]

Watch the speed ratings on those Chinese tires, some of them are ridiculously slow, even for our trucks.


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[simp5782]

Watch the speed ratings on those Chinese tires, some of them are ridiculously slow, even for our trucks.


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75. On the 20ply tires.

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[ladoublet]

Any later news than June 2017 on putting dual wheels on back of M929A2. How would you dual the 14.00R20's?

 

[simp5782]

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