ECO Hubs Who needs 3:07 gears?

[Ronmar]

Where is the reduction hub? In the planetary part that is "inside" the wheel?

It was my base assumption that this was the part that needed to be protected from the abuse of high speed operation, but of course everything is probably different for these little axles.

Has anyone put a hub temp sensor on, and or do your mid trip checks show a significant increase in hub operating temp? (Eg. Back of the hand check)?

The hub is all the way at the end of the axle outboard of the wheel bearings under the center domed cap. It halvs the drive axle rpm and applies that to the hub/wheel(2:1).

Yes, highspeed is not their friend...

Yes they generate heat.

The eco hub removes the entire hub planetary and couples drive axle directly to hub/wheel(1:1) like any typical single reduction axle...

 

[Ronmar]

The axles still slide out the end of the hub. You just remove the cap and slide them out.

Yup... remove center cap, pull axle, replace center cap...

 

[BigMontana]

The hub is all the way at the end of the axle outboard of the wheel bearings under the center domed cap. It halvs the drive axle rpm and applies that to the hub/wheel(2:1).

Yes, highspeed is not their friend...

Yes they generate heat.

The eco hub removes the entire hub planetary and couples drive axle directly to hub/wheel(1:1) like any typical single reduction axle...

Oh, Okay I get it. Thanks!

 

[Lostchain]

Where is the reduction hub? In the planetary part that is "inside" the wheel?

picture is worth a thousand words, you are simply ripping all this garbage out and connecting the inner axle to the outer hub.

 

[chucky]

OK more questions ! So how/where do you fill the hub with oil and how do you know how full to fill it ? And steer axle has to have a way to fill unlike oil coming down the axle tubes to feed the rear hubs and bearings

 

[Xengineguy]

Hi Chucky,
there is a drain/fill hole on the adapter plates. You can fill just like a stock reduction unit.

 

[chucky]

Hi Chucky,
there is a drain/fill hole on the adapter plates. You can fill just like a stock reduction unit.

Ok i looked at the castings and didnt see them And do we turn that hole to the 4 oclock pos. to fill or something else ?

 

[Ronmar]

Ok i looked at the castings and didnt see them And do we turn that hole to the 4 oclock pos. to fill or something else ?

They were on the side of the front hubgear covers and are hard to see unless the wheel is rolled with them on top.

His current eco hub has a filler hole, the first product run filled thru any mounting hole, but the same 4Oclock procedure applies as it did on the original hub...

 

[Xengineguy]

Where is the reduction hub? In the planetary part that is "inside" the wheel?

It was my base assumption that this was the part that needed to be protected from the abuse of high speed operation, but of course everything is probably different for these little axles.

Has anyone put a hub temp sensor on, and or do your mid trip checks show a significant increase in hub operating temp? (Eg. Back of the hand check)?

I think you’re still misunderstanding what the reduction is and how the mod works. The reduction 2/1 is placed between the axle
and the wheel hub. We remove the reduction and make the hub spin the same speed as the axle. No heat is generated with this coupling of components. With the reduction lots of heat. Eco hubs no heat.

 

[Recce01]

Does anyone with the ECO hub conversion have an EGT gauge in their truck? If so, what were the EGT differences before and after the hub conversion? I ask because I have limited diesel experience with small Japanese RHD vans. In their case, running mid RPM range would create very high EGTs, where as low RPM and High RPM would keep them in check. There has been lots of discussion about these hubs keeping the engine in the sweet spot as far as torque is concerned, that tells me best use of turbo, also tells me potentially higher EGTs with sustained mid RPM traveling. Just a point of curiosity for me. Thanks in advance for any insight on this side topic.

Scott

 

[BigMontana]

picture is worth a thousand words, you are simply ripping all this garbage out and connecting the inner axle to the outer hub.

View attachment 899625

Thanks. The names of th

Does anyone with the ECO hub conversion have an EGT gauge in their truck? If so, what were the EGT differences before and after the hub conversion? I ask because I have limited diesel experience with small Japanese RHD vans. In their case, running mid RPM range would create very high EGTs, where as low RPM and High RPM would keep them in check. There has been lots of discussion about these hubs keeping the engine in the sweet spot as far as torque is concerned, that tells me best use of turbo, also tells me potentially higher EGTs with sustained mid RPM traveling. Just a point of curiosity for me. Thanks in advance for any insight on this side topic.

Scott

I drove an old dump truck with that issue.

If you want to know where your "sweet spot is" see if the marine folxs use your engine.

Eg. The 3116 is very highly used in marine applications. And they have detailed conversations about RPM and Propeller tuning for cruise vs. WOT etc etc.

In the case of the 3116, sustained cruise operation above 2400 rpm is said to reduce engine longevity, 2850 rpm is said to be a reasonable Rev limiter.

The military tried to dumb things down so they chopped 250 RPM off your top end and the military 3116 usually hits Rev somewhere around 2600, maybe a bit lower.

Stock the army set these things up to cruise indefinitely at between 45 and 50 mph, and then you use the extra few MPH to wind up the turbo right before you hit a hill.

Your power band kicks in pretty low, so really, if your automatic transmission has picked an RPM for you, it's in the acceptable long or medium long engine longevity range.

Depending on the engine and the truck you probably don't have to worry about the pyrometer. For my MUI 3116, in an m1078 LMTV the military took about 60 HP or more off the engine's actual top performance by HP/torque--again, they're giving these to 19 year olds, so they aren't trying to make them easily abusable.

Eg. You aren't even capable of true MID RPM range WOT operation.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Does anyone with the ECO hub conversion have an EGT gauge in their truck? If so, what were the EGT differences before and after the hub conversion? I ask because I have limited diesel experience with small Japanese RHD vans. In their case, running mid RPM range would create very high EGTs, where as low RPM and High RPM would keep them in check. There has been lots of discussion about these hubs keeping the engine in the sweet spot as far as torque is concerned, that tells me best use of turbo, also tells me potentially higher EGTs with sustained mid RPM traveling. Just a point of curiosity for me. Thanks in advance for any insight on this side topic.

Scott

If the EGT's were higher with the ECO hubs that would manifest as more heat being dumped into the coolant and we would see the cooling system working harder. What we see with the ECO hubs is the cooling system working significantly less. My radiator fan rarely kicks on now.

We also are seeing about a ~30% increase in fuel economy and diesel engines have higher EGT as you add fuel so the economy along with the cooling system performance tell you everything you need to know - EGT's are going to be lower.

 

[DeMilitarized]

If the EGT's were higher with the ECO hubs that would manifest as more heat being dumped into the coolant and we would see the cooling system working harder. What we see with the ECO hubs is the cooling system working significantly less. My radiator fan rarely kicks on now.

We also are seeing about a ~30% increase in fuel economy and diesel engines have higher EGT as you add fuel so the economy along with the cooling system performance tell you everything you need to know - EGT's are going to be lower.

Peak torque is peak egt because the engine is being most efficient and burning all the fuel.

 

[BigMontana]

Peak torque is peak egt because the engine is being most efficient and burning all the fuel.

Not quite that simple, especially where fuel is still burning as it exits the compression chamber.

Or to look at that idea from the opposite end, a diesel engine can have peak torque much lower than peak horsepower, in that instance of peak torque at lower RPM the fuel will have longer to burn and expand inside the compression chamber, and thus EGT goes down, as you increase RPMs more waste happens past the time when the exploding fuel is pushing against the pistons.

 

[DeMilitarized]

Not quite that simple, especially where fuel is still burning as it exits the compression chamber.

Or to look at that idea from the opposite end, a diesel engine can have peak torque much lower than peak horsepower, in that instance of peak torque at lower RPM the fuel will have longer to burn and expand inside the compression chamber, and thus EGT goes down, as you increase RPMs more waste happens past the time when the exploding fuel is pushing against the pistons.

I’m talking about your true egt not what the gauge says. True egt is the temp of the combustion chamber and that is what actually matters in the long run when you are worried about melting pistons.

 

[BigMontana]

I’m talking about your true egt not what the gauge says. True egt is the temp of the combustion chamber and that is what actually matters in the long run when you are worried about melting pistons.

In Diesel applications do they really use the word "exhaust" to stand for the "E" in EGT but actually mean Internal combustion temperature? Racing applications they worry about burning out a turbo too...my brother burned out two turbos in his turbo Corvette, but he's a dumbass.

To go back to the original premise, I still don't feel like it hangs right, because using your definition of EGT, I can still reduce internal combustion temps and increase torque by richening the mixture. Or alternatively for diesel engines, by adding propane.

I know I'm argumentative, but it's how I learn best.

 

[RRaulston]

For those who have installed these, did you just install and go, or verify/adjust the wheel bearings then install? And can you properly adjust the wheel bearing with the tire installed? Just curious...

 

[Xengineguy]

For those who have installed these, did you just install and go, or verify/adjust the wheel bearings then install? And can you properly adjust the wheel bearing with the tire installed? Just curious...

You could easily adjust the wheel bearing while you’re there. I would jack the tire up that you’re working on.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

For those who have installed these, did you just install and go, or verify/adjust the wheel bearings then install? And can you properly adjust the wheel bearing with the tire installed? Just curious...

Two of the installs I have done (mine, and the 3.07 truck belonging to @ckouba) we have done full hub services including replacing the CTIS and wheel hub seals, repacking the inner bearings, and adjusting the bearing pre-load. On @Lostchain's truck we did only the ECO hubs but we did check the wheel bearing preload with the wheels off the ground. His all seemed to be good and had some dates written on the hubs that indicated service work - his CTIS also functions properly so he elected to not do the hub service at the same time.

 

[Ronmar]

Peak torque is peak egt because the engine is being most efficient and burning all the fuel.

Only if you are needing to use all that torque, but you hit the high point, EGT will always be a factor of load.

Torque drops off drastically above pk torque RPM, winding up ~1/2 of peak(or less?) at 2600RPM. We are performing a certain amount of work rolling down the road at highway speed with the 2:1s, but it is obviously less than the ~1/2pk that is available(how much less I have not found an easy way to measure yet). When rolling down the road at highway speed(or for any given amount of work) minus the 2:1, you double the torque required from the source, but that will still be below the torque available When running at the peak torque RPM As it is with the 2:1@2600. But gearboxes spinning at higher RPM have more loss. This mod halves the RPM thru all of them and removes one whole gearbox(10% loss?) From the path. it also removes all the pumping load/loss increase incurred between peak torque and 2600RPM…

Because of the increases in efficiency, even with the torque requirement increase, i suspect the EGT may have decreased(evidenced by the lower fuel burn and apparent lower cooling system demand. Certainly nothing that is being reported indicates excessive EGT…

as to why an RHD van would do this, there are a lot of other dynamics that could be involved here. What RPM is it optimized for? One could be exhaust resonance and you could have certain ranges where the exhaust actually changes back pressure and in effect exhaust brakes the engine, causing increased load/fuel burn/EGT… At any rate it does not sound like the source system is optimized for the load…