ECO Hubs Who needs 3:07 gears?

[Third From Texas]

Truck will be registered in South Dakota for now. I’m currently looking to buy a home in a state that I can register the truck in easily so reg will be moved once I find the right property. And for what it’s worth, you actually still can register an LMTV/FMTV in CA. Thanks

You might also consider starting an LLC in a more "friendly" state.

Company vehicle. Leased to yourself. Add the LLC as "also covered" on the insurance.

/done

Cheaper than a new home...

 

[GCecchetto]

You might also consider starting an LLC in a more "friendly" state.

Company vehicle. Leased to yourself. Add the LLC as "also covered" on the insurance.

/done

Cheaper than a new home...

You’re the third person to mention that, so I guess I should look into it

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Thanks. I’m looking at a 2008 M1078, wish it was a 1079 but those seem rare as hens teeth, and trying to determine if the 2400 miles on the odometer is correct. The seller was forthright in telling me the speedometer was missing when he got the truck, so it has a new one installed. The seller has the CAT diagnostic tool and said he would check the ECM, but I’ve been told the ECM only tracks the engine hours, which could still verify if the reading is likely correct or not. Interestingly, the owner of the truck lives in the Netherlands and won’t be back over here until October, so it will be a while before I’m actually able to buy the truck. The truck is on the east coast and I’m on the opposite, so definitely installing Eco Hubs before the drive home. I’m guessing I’ll still be somewhat speed limited by the tire balance, or lack there of. Splitting the rims apart to put in balance beads before heading home seems like a lot of work. I’m a complete newbie here and to these trucks, relatively speaking so not sure if the beads could be put in through the stud the CTIS hose connects to. Even if that was possible, that would put the beads inside the bead lock and I’m not sure if they would be able to migrate out into the tire.

Now to figure out what I need to do to be allowed to send PM’s.

If you want an M1079 then wait for one. That's what I did. It's worth it in my opinion.

Changing the speedo head on an A1R will just pull the same mileage from the MMDC as the previous speedo head. They are CANBUS gauges and only display what they are told to display. You can check the CAT computer to see if it's similar to the speedo readout (they absolutely track mileage - in fact I can change that value to anything I want) - but it's not uncommon for the MMDC's to get swapped out so 2400 could be wrong. Or it could be right. I have an MMDC around here somewhere with 35 miles on it. The air tank transducers in them fail and they get swapped out but otherwise usually work fine. I have opened them up and changed out the transducers.

The reality is that mileage really isn't actually verifiable and really isn't that important on these trucks. Condition is subject more to age and level of neglect than mileage in the case of FMTV's. 2400 miles on a 2008 indicates VERY low use. That means exceptional amounts of not being used which comes with it's own detrimental effects. Lots of issues with moisture, corrosion (especially electrical connections), sun damage, etc. Tires will be garbage if original - dangerous to drive across the country on 2008 rubber. I got lucky when I did it - got about 8,000 miles out of my 2008 tires (truck and tires had 2750 when I got it) and then lost a sidewall in spectacular fashion. That was 2021 so they were 2 years newer than they would be today.

 

[Third From Texas]

You’re the third person to mention that, so I guess I should look into it

I can attest that it is in fact a legal alternative.

Basically, most states require that you register your motor vehicle in the state you reside (typically within 30 days of purchase or moving to a state). A "company car" can be registered in the state the "company" resides (but it can be operated in any state). Bonus if it's a "mobile office" (write off your truck for tax purposes).

Setting up an LLC is pretty straight forward (you can find the required paperwork and walk throughs online), You start with a name, a Federal Tax ID, and your documents/articles of incorporation. Simple to do by yourself and typically costs less than a hundred dollars for the entire process.

Some states require a "sponsor" (a resident who lives there) to vouch for you. The specifics can vary state-to-state but it's really easy to set up. It can also help to have a physical mailing address in that state, but not always required.

As I said, when you insure the truck, be certain to add the LLC as "also insured" (usually no cost to do so).

Also note that some states will require an annual inspection to renew the plates, etc (a consideration unless you don't mind an annual road trip to that state).

In some states, an LLC/ "business" can become a "hobby" if it's not generating income. That removes a lot of the corporate reporting aspects for taxes, etc.

There are also liability advantages to having the truck owned by a LLC/corporation.

Honestly, it can be a better (and legal) alternative than simply registering a vehicle in another state. I'm in Texas and that would actually be illegal in my case (if you live in Texas, you must register your personal vehicles here within 30 days). But a "company car" can legally be registered in the state where the company resides. YOU don't have to live there.

 

[GCecchetto]

T

I can attest that it is in fact a legal alternative.

Basically, most states require that you register your motor vehicle in the state you reside (typically within 30 days of purchase or moving to a state). A "company car" can be registered in the state the "company" resides (but it can be operated in any state). Bonus if it's a "mobile office" (write off your truck for tax purposes).

Setting up an LLC is pretty straight forward (you can find the required paperwork and walk throughs online), You start with a name, a Federal Tax ID, and your documents/articles of incorporation. Simple to do by yourself and typically costs less than a hundred dollars for the entire process.

Some states require a "sponsor" (a resident who lives there) to vouch for you. The specifics can vary state-to-state but it's really easy to set up. It can also help to have a physical mailing address in that state, but not always required.

As I said, when you insure the truck, be certain to add the LLC as "also insured" (usually no cost to do so).

Also note that some states will require an annual inspection to renew the plates, etc (a consideration unless you don't mind an annual road trip to that state).

In some states, an LLC/ "business" can become a "hobby" if it's not generating income. That removes a lot of the corporate reporting aspects for taxes, etc.

There are also liability advantages to having the truck owned by a LLC/corporation.

Honestly, it can be a better (and legal) alternative than simply registering a vehicle in another state. I'm in Texas and that would actually be illegal in my case (if you live in Texas, you must register your personal vehicles here within 30 days). But a "company car" can legally be registered in the state where the company resides. YOU don't have to live there.

Thanks guys! All good info, and now I feel like I have hijacked the Eco Hubs thread On the bright side, I’m getting close to the 10 posts I need to be able to PM the OP about a set of hubs. I do also need to make a decision on 3 axles vs 2 as well. A recent acquaintance, whose is on SteelSoldiers, has been working me over about getting an M1088 A1R. Says he is consistently able to drive through stuff his buddies with M1078’s and M1079’s get stuck on. Decisions decisions.

 

[coachgeo]

I can attest that it is in fact a legal alternative.

Basically, most states require that you register your motor vehicle in the state you reside (typically within 30 days of purchase or moving to a state). A "company car" can be registered in the state the "company" resides (but it can be operated in any state)....

Many states are clamping down on this. The exotic care market abused this a little too much thus many states have passed legislation and or re-written registration code to fine HEAVY if you are doing this........ Think GA was first one to poo poo this

 

[Third From Texas]

Many states are clamping down on this. The exotic care market abused this a little too much thus many states have passed legislation and or re-written registration code to fine HEAVY if you are doing this........ Think GA was first one to poo poo this

Some states have cracked down on people registering their "luxury" vehicles out of state to avoid paying property and luxury taxes in their resident state. So in that aspect, if you were paying a pile of taxes to your resident state, then register the vehicle in another state to avoid those taxes...yes, that can lead to fines.

I think the big GA case was more about out-of-state corporations "operating" in GA (and again, not paying their normal taxes). Where states take issue is when it comes to corporations dodging tax revenue. A "hobby" LLC generates n such incomes to be taxed.

But post links if you have them.


The OP should do his research As I said a couple times above, things varies state--to-state.

 

[ramdough]

Can we get on topic here and move titling discussions to another post?


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[Ned81]

Can we get on topic here and move titling discussions to another post?


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Here we go.
I’m still waiting for someone with an A0 to post their performance results with eco hubs. Anyone added these to an A0?


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[Xengineguy]

There are quite a few AO trucks with Eco Hubs. if you look thru the threads, anyone that mentions dip switch setting for the
speedometer should be a AO. Sorry I don’t have a list but I bet someone will respond.

 

[DieselAddict]

My calculations didn't work out perfectly. I'm going to get to the bottom of this and update the post accordingly.

Mine was 356.

 

[DieselAddict]

Well, the math didn't work out like I expected. I settled on choosing a calibration and driving to see if I was over or under. I settled down on 440 as the number. At this point its splitting hairs with the GPS. Seems to be either a half a MPH under to half a MPH over depending on speed.

 

[Ronmar]

Here we go.
I’m still waiting for someone with an A0 to post their performance results with eco hubs. Anyone added these to an A0?


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I don’t think you are going to find anyone who doesn’t see an overall improvement. Engine torque to vehicle thrust is a pretty well defined area of study, and the math and calculations well proven. All the math supports this as an improvement. If people were having decreases in performance, you would have heard something from the people with other engines as well…

How much weight are you going to move And where? The only place you would notice a difference is if you were loaded to max gross and beyond and lifting that weight up a slope or over a boulder, where you would actually engage the torque converter, and all the mechanical advantage would be used(if you don’t run out of traction first). That is the only place where 2:1 at the hubs gets you anything. Everywhere else it is a 10% disadvantage due to hub gear losses(turns torque into noise and heat).

At any speed that requires 3rd gear or above, like at highway speed, you are performing X amount of work with the SAME engine, only now it is not screaming at max governed RPM, and has way lower pumping losses and nearly twice the torque available at peak torque RPM(1550) as it does at max governed. And you are also minus that 10% of loss at the hub gears… which is why every report I have seen so far indicates improved performance.

An added side benefit is that you will no longer be operating your driveshafts in the red zone at highway speed. At 60MPH we spin the shafts at 3377RPM. Every chart I have seen show a max driveshaft angle of ~5.5 degrees At that RPM. Ours are around 9 degrees… these hubs cut the driveshaft RPM to ~1688 at that speed. At that RPM the max operating angle becomes 10.6 degrees, placing our operating condition back into the acceptable zone on the rpm/angle chart…

Now if you want to go crawling over 18” logs and boulders at 25,000#, these may not be for you… Basically they hamstrung the entire drivetrain for average use to meet a milspec like that(surmount an 18” curb?)…

Thats the beauty of this change though, you can always put the hub gears back on if you don’t like these…

 

[Ronmar]

My calculations didn't work out perfectly. I'm going to get to the bottom of this and update the post accordingly.

Mine was 356.
View attachment 904028

When you say “mine was 356”, was that what your original settings were, or thats what you calculated using their formula?

 

[DieselAddict]

That was the dip switch setting.

 

[Ronmar]

That was the dip switch setting.

Yea the math does not work out. Did you try the switch settings for a cal number of 178? You saying 440 gives you good numbers compared to GPS really lets the smoke out of my nugget that calc number on the ametek chart is 1/2 of the frequency in hz @60MPH with a 16 pulse per rev driveshaft sensor. On the Isspro speedometer chart it would be 712(Divide by 60 instead of 120). If this chart holds true though, regardless of how we sense the pulse per mile, removing 2:1 at the hubs would cut the pulse per mile/freq @60 in half, so you should have gone from 356 to 178(712 to 356 on the isspro chart)

I don’t think anyone has done a GPS to speedometer cal before pulling the 2:1s, so how accurate is the cal at Ametek 356? The fact that they all appear to be set to it(the manual has a different switch setting shown) tells me it is probably close.

Our sensor counts the teeth on the 36 tooth transfer output gear, so in order for any of the math to work, there is some conditioning going on in the transmission controller or the speedometer, an additional divide by 3 circuit or some cal factor to get to the 8, 16 or 30 pulse per rev standards. But that doesn't account for the opposite direction, going from 356 to 440 on the chart With a gearing and frequency reduction… perhaps they inverted the logic and off = on and on = off… At any rate, your results indicate that these charts are not for our application,

I will take your GPS calibrated method as far more correct… Thanks.

 

[DieselAddict]

Yea, I took photos of the swtiches when I started. Verified that number on the chart and looked at the calculations in the manual and figured what it should have been. I did 712 and that was WAY off. Well, that didn't work. Ended up choosing a couple of values to see the scale of each change then zeroed in on the 440 number. Not what I expected at all.

Not to mention that I choose the number that got me the best correlation around 55mph. I'm seeing that the speed is not quite linear across the range. Could just be my instrument though.

 

[ckouba]

I’m still waiting for someone with an A0 to post their performance results with eco hubs. Anyone added these to an A0?

I believe Brandon has a 1078 A0. Look up Lostchain on the forum. He has posted feedback and some videos following his conversion.

I have a 1088A1 with a big box on it which had highway gears already in it and I love what the ECO hubs have done. I've got about 400 miles on them so far, about to bump that up through out this week with a trip to the coast. No downsides yet.

Love them.

 

[Ronmar]

I believe Brandon has a 1078 A0. Look up Lostchain on the forum. He has posted feedback and some videos following his conversion.

I have a 1088A1 with a big box on it which highway gears already in it and I love what the ECO hubs have done. I've got about 400 miles on them so far, about to bump that up through out this week with a trip to the coast. No downsides yet.

Love them.

Your truck is a good example. Your torque has been bumped up a little, 860ft/lb peak, I think? but the differential drop from 3.9 to 3.07 cancels some of that torque out before it gets to the wheels, making it perform like a truck with 670ft/lb, or about 50ft/lb more than a 225hp 3116… that equates to about 1200 pounds more pull from the wheels or 14.4K pounds vis 13.2K on a 3116.

 

[DieselAddict]

I have an A0 and from driving it around some with the new hubs I can say that the truck is not slower. I didn't take any measurements with the old hubs but I'll get out and capture some performance with the data acquisition system soon.