Electric Fan on Deuce

[SasquatchSanta]

Last year I installed an electric cooling fan on my deuce.

The main reason for doing so was because the standard water pump mounted fan wouldn't allow the engine to heat up above 120 degrees in our cold Northern Minnesota winters.

The background on this project was covered in a "Slobbering Multi-Fuel" thread:
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/index....opic&t=5873&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20

I'm starting this new thread so the project will be easier to find. As soon as the weather warms up I'll be doing some more road tests to see if the new less restrictive fan mount solves the threatening temperature problems I experienced last summer.

Quite a bit of experimentation has been required to get a fan mount design that wouldn't be over restrictive.

The first mount was "way" too restrictive so I modified the existing mount for more free air flow. Temperature spikes still "acted" threatening so I built an all new mount. Unfortunately, by the time the new mount (pictured below) was installed the weather had cooled down to the point that tests had to wait until another season.

These aren't very good pictures so I'll attempt to explain the workings of the mount. There are flanges around the radiator bottom, sides and partially on the top that a properly built two pice mount can be slid into. Once each half section piece is slid into place and the two halves are bolted together the assembly is firmly in place. Once the fan is mounted the mount becomes more ridgid.

The fan is bolted to the four fingers on the mount. I used flat headed "washer" bolts to mount the fan. The flat head on the bolt wasn't a threat to the radiator core. You will notice a couple of nuts welded on the bottom of each half mount. The purpose of the nuts was to have something to "peck" on while the mount was carefully being installed and removed during the "fitting" process. The knotches in the lower left and right corners are required for clearance purposes.

Road test data will follow as soon as the weather turns.

 

[Jimmy]

Looks good to me, you will have to let us know how the test turn out. My M62 doesn't want' to get warm down here even with a winter cover so that is a good idea.

 

[OPCOM]

How does this fan work? It looks great.

 

[SasquatchSanta]

New Hot Weather Tests on Electric Cooling Fan

I was finally able to do some hot weather testing on the electric cooling fan and the new, less restrictive fan mount.

After much experimentation I have to say the project was a success AND a failure.

It is a success in that it offers a solution for cold weather slobbering and inability to heat up past 120 degrees in the winter. It is a failure in that the single 2360 CFM 16"/16hp fan
isn't quite enough to make me feel comfortable on an 80 degree day.

As previously stated, I'm using a Spal 24 Volt 30102540 VA18-BP70/LL 16" High Performance Push Model --- Straight Blade fan. It is rigged to come on at 195 and off at 175.

On a hot 80 degree day (by Northern Minnesota standards) the fan stays on all the time
and temps hover around 195 degrees. In a hill it's easy to get to 200, even 205. This makes me nervious in that I feel I'm sailing a little too close to the wind. I get worried when the needle goes over 200 degrees.

With the current configuration I wouldn't feel comortable pulling a trailer. I had hoped the temps would hover around 180 at 55 MPH with the fan disabled which would indicate that the thermostat is controlling the temp, not the fan.

My solution is to install and run the water pump fan during the summer months and remove it during the winter months. The single Spal fan application does a great job during the winter.

I hope this is helpful.

 

[devilman96]

RE: New Hot Weather Tests on Electric Cooling Fan

I think if you were to install a puller in the back with the pusher you have on the front you would proably have your CFM issues licked. If yours is bidirectional move it to the rear and add 2 10" in the front.

The 3 10" puller fans I am running on mine are moving about 3600 CFM and seem to be about right for keeping up with the LDT.

 

[OPCOM]

RE: New Hot Weather Tests on Electric Cooling Fan

It is interesting that the movement of the truck on the highway does not by itself flow enough air to cool it. I expected it to be fine on the highway even without a fan (cars are). Thanks for the datapoints and keep us posted in case you are persuaded to go with multiple fans.

 

[gimpyrobb]

RE: New Hot Weather Tests on Electric Cooling Fan

Yeah, I was going to say relocate it too. I have had alot of buddys who tried the pusher and it didn't work. When they moved it to a puller, it cooled just fine.

 

[cranetruck]

RE: New Hot Weather Tests on Electric Cooling Fan

Make sure you have enough alternator capacity for some of those fans, they need a lot, 25 amps won't do it.....

 

[littlebob]

RE: New Hot Weather Tests on Electric Cooling Fan

I agree with Opcom, I thought most vehicles cooling systems would work without a fan if at highway speeds. I've lost a few belts over the years and was always able to keep temps down as long as I kept moving in cars, I would think a truck woulb similar. I wonder if you might need to have the radiator rodded out
before doing much more with the fans. I flushed all kinds of crud out of mine after soaking with A/C cool cleaner and thought about having it rodded, but I don't know if I've got a problem and if I do everything I would like to do I'll never get it on the road.
littlebob

 

[TheBuggyman]

Could you incorporate a thermostatic clutch fan? It would seem that would cure the issues.

 

[redwolf3]

Well, I would first say that your hope that the fan would control the heat instead of the thermostat is the first issue. Any car, even with a huge fan, the temps will be primarily controlled by the thermostat. When the thermostat closes, water is not cycling at the same rate through the radiator, and so the radiator isn't cooling the motor.

I do agree that installing a puller would be a good idea. In general, the same fan as a pusher or puller will pull more air than it can push. In addition, with a radiator as big as yours, I would think that 2 smaller fans would be better as, typically, 2 smaller fans can pull more volume of air than 1 big one, and better cover the hotspots. Also, using/designing a fan shroud with a puller fan might help you along as well.

Also, what is the optimal operating temperature for your engine? Most engines I have dealt with (diesel and gas) are designed to operate in the 200* range for optimal combustion. My DD (which has a new motor, cooling system, etc) has a Thermostat that opens at 195. My temps range from 192 to 212, which is pretty normal from what I know, so I wouldn't think that 205 would be a big deal, but again, I don't own or know much about the big Mil Engines.

 

[devilman96]

I am running a thermo switch installed in the bottom of the radiator, 190 degree cut in/out and the core was cleaned when I was doing the work several months back so I know I'm good on flow.

I was also surprized that the highway speeds were not enough alone to keep the system in check. As where most of you guys up north usually suffer from not enough heat were on the opposite end of that spectrum.

Bjorn is right about the charging system and amprage. I should have noted I'm running mine on the 12V side not my 24 as each fan pulls about 12amps each.

As mentioned above you're always better to run 2-3 fans together as the CFM on larger diameter fans drops off quickly as the diameter gets larger. its not uncommon to use 2 different sizes while doing this to get the best coverage from them.

Fan clutches will not work on a deuce. . . they do not have the clearance between the radiator and fan to fit the adapter in there.
If anyone is intrested do a search for Diablo and you will see the fan set up as I did some pretty elaborate work to get them in there.

 

[SasquatchSanta]

Hello --- Thanks for all the input.

Redwolf3 Sez:

Well, I would first say that your hope that the fan would control the heat instead of the thermostat is the first issue. Any car, even with a huge fan, the temps will be primarily controlled by the thermostat. When the thermostat closes, water is not cycling at the same rate through the radiator, and so the radiator isn't cooling the motor.

We are saying the same thing --- just in a different way. On a cool day I can deactivate the fan and the thermostat will keep everything modulated within the 180 degree range. This isn't optimal (200 degrees is optimal) but its comforting to know that the next hill won't bring a temp spike (with the fan on) that will take me to 210 degrees. I worry that the current fan configuration is too marginal to handle a hot day should I ever have to leave the north woods and have to keep up with traffic.

Given that I'm running a bobbed deuce with spin-out front hubs I don't think the system I'm running would work on a full "virgin" 6X6 deuce. I also have the milder (cooler) weather on my side.

Before going any further I'm going to do multiple CLR radiator and block flushes and install new Prestone and SCA. Will also pull the bottom hose off the radiator to see how many old Edsel hubcaps and John Kerry Silver Stars flush out.

I agree with Devilman on changing the configuration and adding a coupld of tens on the front BUT --- if I install an LDS engine all the dynamics will no doubt change again. I don't have a problem unstalling the water pump fan in the summer and removing it in the winter. My main objective in installing the fan was winter heating problems and wet stacking --- the removing the water pump fan in the winter and relaying on the electric fan solves that problem.

Bjorn --- The Spal Tech Rep sez the 2360 CFM fan pulls 10 to 11 amps at 26 volts.

More to follow on results after the radiator and block is flushed and properly charges.

 

[coolnick73]

Any updates on this?

How much work is it to remove the water pump fan in the spring time?

Now that the weather is cold, it got me thinking about an electric fan for my "virgin" deuce .

 

[11Echo]

I made a 1,000 mile run in my deuce most of which was at +/- 0 degree weather. It took some trial and error but, I did get the truck to run at a consistant 180 on the gage. It involved no tools and only minutes to prepare. I was surprised at how much I had to block off. Easily removed for warmer weather. I store it behind the passenger seat.

 

[coolnick73]

I made a 1,000 mile run in my deuce most of which was at +/- 0 degree weather. It took some trial and error but, I did get the truck to run at a consistant 180 on the gage. It involved no tools and only minutes to prepare. I was surprised at how much I had to block off. Easily removed for warmer weather. I store it behind the passenger seat.

Is it plywood or cardboard or something else? Yeah, the cheapness factor is a good thing. Does it stay behind the grill by itself or do you have some zip ties holding it in place?

 

[tm america]

you would be cooling better if you made a shroud so it pulled air through the whole rad .how you have it it will only force air right where the fan isi put an electric fan on my tractor and used a piece of think sheet metal to make the shroud .first pic is of the shroud second is of the mecedes turbo deisel i put in there.the fan kicks on at 180 and off at 140 and cycles as it should even when working it hard

 

[11Echo]

Is it plywood or cardboard or something else? Yeah, the cheapness factor is a good thing. Does it stay behind the grill by itself or do you have some zip ties holding it in place?

It was a cardboard box I got at a truck stop. It is folded a few times and the pressure of it trying to open itself up kept it in place without any extra help. I did hook one bungee cord from the grill guard to the bottom of the radiator in case it tried to fall out. It didn't need it.
I had at one point covered the passenger side all the way to the top but, the truck began to overheat.
The first pic shows what it was like pre-cardboard. That's ice, not snow!
The bungee hook is noticeable at the bottom of the second pic.

 

[jwaller]

It was a cardboard box I got at a truck stop. It is folded a few times and the pressure of it trying to open itself up kept it in place without any extra help. I did hook one bungee cord from the grill guard to the bottom of the radiator in case it tried to fall out. It didn't need it.
I had at one point covered the passenger side all the way to the top but, the truck began to overheat.
The first pic shows what it was like pre-cardboard. That's ice, not snow!
The bungee hook is noticeable at the bottom of the second pic.

I've used the cardboard box trick many many times. it's a great free trick and works every time.

 

[Kohburn]

reviving an old thread:

for the issue of the deuce not being able to be cooled on the highway without the fan running I wonder if this is due to buildup in the coolant system or from an undersized radiator that wasn't undersized so long as the fan was always running.

if the radiator is undersized I wonder how difficult it is to adjust the location and replace it with a more efficient universal aluminum radiator.

I am curious how much power the stock fan wastes at 2000rpm