Engine repair or swap to LDS?

[ldmack3]

After hauling my 2nd load of topsoil at 3,600 lbs. I noticed white smoke coming from the slobber tube. I've checked for the signs of water in oil and see none. FDC bypass done. No whiteish foam on the valve cover oil cap, no increasing oil level, no decreasing water level. So suspect it is blow by. The smoke only appears as the engine warms up and it has been run pretty regular so not condensation.

I have been watching some slight leakage between head and block in 2 places and now three. Aft of #6, #1 exhaust manifold attach and now front right corner.
Starts easily, runs smooth and strong as far as I know.

So I am looking at pulling and rebuilding the heads for the leaks and to inspect the cylinders. It turns out I had a bad EGT indicator (replaced some weeks ago) but am unsure how hot my temps have been. Got a bad feeling on this. With the new indicator it did bump 1300F for a sec until I let off and downshifted on this last load.

All that being said if I pop the heads and see something I can't live with, depending on cost I would like to swap in an LDS465-1A or 2. (More power!)

Between a “good removed” LDT and a govt refurbished LDS it could run $2,000 to $6,500 + shipping. OUCH! I've also a tranny issue to correct. $$
With a good removed LDT I feel like I should at least pop the heads and inspect.

Coming off the road to my driveway is a sharp switchback so I don't think a wrecker could get around it should it break down on the road. I have to do a 3 pt turn with just the truck.

I'm looking for opinions, advice and suggestions from those with more experience in this area.

Thanks all!

 

[ToddJK]

I wouldn't pull the heads just yet. Has your truck say for a little while for moisture build up in the oil or had really high humidity/lots of rain? Is there potential of blowby coming from the turbo?
It could be a lot of things and if you aren't used to seeing it, it can be a little unnerving. My truck has been doing that for quite some time now and the heads seep oil from the back and a couple spots on the sides so I have to add oil occasionally. Still has full power, temp stays cool and rarely ever goes up past 180 degrees unless it's super hot out and I'm working it hard. No loss of coolant and no coolant in the oil.
While I agree it's not a bad idea to pull the heads and do a gasket replacement, I wouldn't be too scared just yet. I doubt there will be any real damage done due to some blowby. I probably just wouldn't drive too far from home where someone can't get you. You have time to get some replacement gaskets and when you're ready, pop the heads off and replace them. Not sure if you can check the turbo or not, but that would be a good time to look into that as well.
I will say, when my head gasket blew, it shot coolant every where and because I pushed it trying to get home, that's when I melted a piston. Luckily nothing else was damaged that I noticed once I had it torn down. New piston and sleeve along with new gaskets fixed it.
As long as it's running fine, I wouldn't worry much, just keep an eye on your temps and fluid levels for the time being until you dig into it.

 

[ldmack3]

No truck doesn't sit much. It was smoking after 20 miles, 1/2 with a load of 3.6K lbs.

I have 2 concerns.
1st is that I damaged the engine with the high temps. The long story is my old indicator was bad. I did a trip with a long slight up hill. Everything was fine including the EGT temp. It actually had never been as high as 900F. On this trip I suddenly noticed it was at 1,300 for I don't know how long. The water temp was 180 and I could smell it was getting hot. I immediately let off and down shifted. It stayed at 1300, after a mile I found a place wide enough to pullover and sat at idle for several minutes. Still at 1,300. Thumped the gauge and it dropped to 900. Went home carefully and it stayed 900F. Got home and after 5-10 minutes idling was still at 900. Thumped it several times and no change. Shut down and came back 1-2 hours later and still at 900. Began removing it and some jostling, not the disconnection of wires, broke the needle free. I replaced it and the new gauge gave totally different readings consistently. The short hill to my house I could pull in 4th with plenty of power and less than 900F was suddenly 1200F+ part way up.

2nd concern is that if I should breakdown on the road a wrecker cannot get around the hairpin turn to my driveway. This means I have to go to a shop to have it repaired. This would be the end of my deuce as I really can't afford a truck shop to do any repair work.

I was already planning on replacing the head gasket this summer and it would only make sense to inspect the pistons/cylinders while off.
Only if I found some damage would I consider swapping at this time.

A question I have is if the high temps melted a piston or did other damage what if any would be an indication of the damage? It is a TD engine if that makes a difference.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[ToddJK]

No truck doesn't sit much. It was smoking after 20 miles, 1/2 with a load of 3.6K lbs.

I have 2 concerns.
1st is that I damaged the engine with the high temps. The long story is my old indicator was bad. I did a trip with a long slight up hill. Everything was fine including the EGT temp. It actually had never been as high as 900F. On this trip I suddenly noticed it was at 1,300 for I don't know how long. The water temp was 180 and I could smell it was getting hot. I immediately let off and down shifted. It stayed at 1300, after a mile I found a place wide enough to pullover and sat at idle for several minutes. Still at 1,300. Thumped the gauge and it dropped to 900. Went home carefully and it stayed 900F. Got home and after 5-10 minutes idling was still at 900. Thumped it several times and no change. Shut down and came back 1-2 hours later and still at 900. Began removing it and some jostling, not the disconnection of wires, broke the needle free. I replaced it and the new gauge gave totally different readings consistently. The short hill to my house I could pull in 4th with plenty of power and less than 900F was suddenly 1200F+ part way up.

2nd concern is that if I should breakdown on the road a wrecker cannot get around the hairpin turn to my driveway. This means I have to go to a shop to have it repaired. This would be the end of my deuce as I really can't afford a truck shop to do any repair work.

I was already planning on replacing the head gasket this summer and it would only make sense to inspect the pistons/cylinders while off.
Only if I found some damage would I consider swapping at this time.

A question I have is if the high temps melted a piston or did other damage what if any would be an indication of the damage? It is a TD engine if that makes a difference.

Thanks for the feedback!

If a piston melted, there would be some serious noises coming from that engine! That melted metal will work it's way into your valves, possibly covering your fuel injector, things like that. It can also seize as it kinda welds itself if the engine stops with that specific piston on the compression stroke.
Not saying you may not have caused any deformation due to heat, but 1300 is not an instant engine killing temp, but sustaining that temp surely will. The fact you were able to smell it getting hot is an indicator and you did the right thing. It takes a lot to melt a piston believe it or not.
If you feel uneasy about it, best bet is too leave it where you feel it is safe to do so and start your project when you're ready. If you do get caught somewhere and that head blows, you very well may risk damaging it trying to get it home. If it was towed home, it should still start and run long enough to get through your driveway and what not but the longer.it runs the more likely you are damage internal components, especially if the oil gets contaminated with coolant.

 

[ToddJK]

I didn't ask, but did you bypass the FDC or changed the fuel settings, this with the pyro reading, or is that a pyro reading in standard configuration and settings?

 

[ldmack3]

FDC bypass prior to this.
Also, my EGT is post turbo.

Thanks. I feel better. Still need to pop the heads and will do that before working it much more.

 

[ldmack3]

I read a post something about "Please not a head gasket change" or something similar and got from it that checking the injectors is a good thing when you have any questions about a suspected head gasket leak.

So I've pulled them and aside from some carbon/soot build up on a couple I did not see any holes blocked or other issues to my untrained eye..

Tomorrow I will call around to find a shop that can test pop, adjust and clean.

 

[DaneGer21]

I read a post something about "Please not a head gasket change" or something similar and got from it that checking the injectors is a good thing when you have any questions about a suspected head gasket leak.

So I've pulled them and aside from some carbon/soot build up on a couple I did not see any holes blocked or other issues to my untrained eye..

Tomorrow I will call around to find a shop that can test pop, adjust and clean.
View attachment 873459View attachment 873460

I read a post something about "Please not a head gasket change" or something similar and got from it that checking the injectors is a good thing when you have any questions about a suspected head gasket leak.

So I've pulled them and aside from some carbon/soot build up on a couple I did not see any holes blocked or other issues to my untrained eye..

Tomorrow I will call around to find a shop that can test pop, adjust and clean.
View attachment 873459View attachment 873460

Worst case I can do them; although I’m in Ohio.

 

[ToddJK]

From the sounds of it, I don't think you damaged anything. Certainly doesn't hurt to check though! If you have a bore scope or anything, you can stick it down the hole where the injector was and check the pistons for any deformation. At least if you do find some damage, you have time to look and get parts before you get that far and less waiting while the engine is apart.

 

[davidb56]

No truck doesn't sit much. It was smoking after 20 miles, 1/2 with a load of 3.6K lbs.

I have 2 concerns.
1st is that I damaged the engine with the high temps. The long story is my old indicator was bad. I did a trip with a long slight up hill. Everything was fine including the EGT temp. It actually had never been as high as 900F. On this trip I suddenly noticed it was at 1,300 for I don't know how long. The water temp was 180 and I could smell it was getting hot. I immediately let off and down shifted. It stayed at 1300, after a mile I found a place wide enough to pullover and sat at idle for several minutes. Still at 1,300. Thumped the gauge and it dropped to 900. Went home carefully and it stayed 900F. Got home and after 5-10 minutes idling was still at 900. Thumped it several times and no change. Shut down and came back 1-2 hours later and still at 900. Began removing it and some jostling, not the disconnection of wires, broke the needle free. I replaced it and the new gauge gave totally different readings consistently. The short hill to my house I could pull in 4th with plenty of power and less than 900F was suddenly 1200F+ part way up.

2nd concern is that if I should breakdown on the road a wrecker cannot get around the hairpin turn to my driveway. This means I have to go to a shop to have it repaired. This would be the end of my deuce as I really can't afford a truck shop to do any repair work.

I was already planning on replacing the head gasket this summer and it would only make sense to inspect the pistons/cylinders while off.
Only if I found some damage would I consider swapping at this time.

A question I have is if the high temps melted a piston or did other damage what if any would be an indication of the damage? It is a TD engine if that makes a difference.

Thanks for the feedback!

I have never seen 900F at idle, even with my fuel cranked up. I would suggest getting a hand held pyrometer and doing some temp checks. At 900F idle, the exhaust gas coming out would be extremely noticeably hot. I would suspect your gauge/probe is acting up or uncalibrated/mismatched.

 

[V8srfun]

Is it possible that you may have always had that much blow bye but just never noticed it before. I mean we all seem to look for a problem that may not be there when we think a mistake was made. If it was my truck I would drive it around some more and see what does or does not change. As far as the lds is concerned The general consensus is that the rocker arm ratio is different and that is the main factor for the power difference, yes the turbo and injectors are different but when individually swapped marginal differences are noticed. I say that to say if I was going to tear the engine down my dream build would be to totally refresh my bottom end and find lds rockers and a modern more efficient wastegated turbo. This way you get all the benefit without dealing with all the different mounting locations between the two engines.

 

[cattlerepairman]

I did LDS swap mine and agree with most that was said.

"I would pull the heads off the good takeout LDS...." like you said was exactly how my totally unplanned rebuild of a good running takeout engine started.
I just wanted to do the head gaskets. Not because they were blown, but they were seeping and its easier to do with the engine on a trailer.
But...while the heads are off I can...while the oil pan is off I should...while the pistons are out it is easy to..while I have the liners pulled.....would be dumb not to also replace....

Let that be a warning !




Sent from my SM-G991W using Tapatalk

 

[ldmack3]

I did LDS swap mine and agree with most that was said.

"I would pull the heads off the good takeout LDS...." like you said was exactly how my totally unplanned rebuild of a good running takeout engine started.
I just wanted to do the head gaskets. Not because they were blown, but they were seeping and its easier to do with the engine on a trailer.
But...while the heads are off I can...while the oil pan is off I should...while the pistons are out it is easy to..while I have the liners pulled.....would be dumb not to also replace....

Let that be a warning !




Sent from my SM-G991W using Tapatalk

Project creep already happened with the rust repair. The further I went, the more I saw.

 

[ldmack3]

I have never seen 900F at idle, even with my fuel cranked up. I would suggest getting a hand held pyrometer and doing some temp checks. At 900F idle, the exhaust gas coming out would be extremely noticeably hot. I would suspect your gauge/probe is acting up or uncalibrated/mismatched.

That's what it turned out to be, a bad indicator. Stuck at 900 until after the wires disconnected and almost completely removed from the mount.
New one operates as expected.

 

[ldmack3]

Is it possible that you may have always had that much blow bye but just never noticed it before. I mean we all seem to look for a problem that may not be there when we think a mistake was made. If it was my truck I would drive it around some more and see what does or does not change. As far as the lds is concerned The general consensus is that the rocker arm ratio is different and that is the main factor for the power difference, yes the turbo and injectors are different but when individually swapped marginal differences are noticed. I say that to say if I was going to tear the engine down my dream build would be to totally refresh my bottom end and find lds rockers and a modern more efficient wastegated turbo. This way you get all the benefit without dealing with all the different mounting locations between the two engines.

I like that idea and never knew what the differences were. I wouldn't do it unless I could pull it and do the bottom end and maybe even a complete overhaul depending on what I saw.
I want the additional power to handle hills better without worrying so much about temps.
Thanks

 

[V8srfun]

I like that idea and never knew what the differences were. I wouldn't do it unless I could pull it and do the bottom end and maybe even a complete overhaul depending on what I saw.
I want the additional power to handle hills better without worrying so much about temps.
Thanks

Remember egt is effected slightly by many things but is mainly effected by air fuel ratio. The answer with high egt is always more air or less fuel the problem with always defaulting to more air is the engine can only handle so much torque.

 

[Welder1]

FDC bypass prior to this.
Also, my EGT is post turbo.

Thanks. I feel better. Still need to pop the heads and will do that before working it much more.

If your EGT got to 1300*F post turbo that's hot. Most set 1300 as an upper limit Pre Turbo.

 

[DaneGer21]

If your EGT got to 1300*F post turbo that's hot. Most set 1300 as an upper limit Pre Turbo.

That was my thoughts, hopefully, his egt sensor is messed up and that wasn’t the actual case. Heck I try to stay below 1100*F PRE-turbo and even if I hit 1100 I try to feather back!

 

[swbradley1]

Project creep already happened with the rust repair. The further I went, the more I saw.

When you are in a deep hole, stop digging.

 

[fleetmech]

Whats leaking from the head area, oil or coolant? Exactly how much haze is coming out the breather? Its an old and old style engine, a bit of haze out the breather is not unheard of after working it. There is a huge difference between driving around and actually hauling, so if these hauls are its first time doing real work in a while, a bit is not surprising.

I will also note that fuel evaporating out of the oil will make a haze out of the breather. That was my first sign my booster pump seal was gone, before i could even detect an increase in oil level.

I AM going to agree with some other guys here, 1300 degrees post turbo is way, way too hot. Thats restricted intake, boost leak, seriously mis-adjusted or cranked up pump territory, and definitely hot enough to hurt something. The general rule of thumb is not to exceed 1200 PRE turbo, and there will be some temperature lost across the turbo. how much smoke was coming from the stack while pulling those hills?