Engine shut off/locked up. Will not crank.

[bones1]

Good questions Ferro.

 

[JJensen]

I've been driving large trucks for a long time, 6 days a week for 10+ years, and have never pushed the clutch in when starting. My newest kenworth has over 200K miles without a single problem. My brother owns 6 semi's, and 2 medium duties, he said has never pushed the clutch in when starting. The transfer station where we all dump our trash has 32 trucks. Each one is started every morning, and none of them get the clutch pushed in during starting. They just do a walk around to each one quickly. We all stand outside the truck during starting. We stand on the step, fire them up and look at the oil pressure. We then get out and air tires, fold tarps, load chains, etc....

NOW, with this truck I need to get back into the habit of depressing the clutch while cranking like a regular pickup. I wouldn't want it to run away if something locked up or went wrong. I've seen guys crank a big truck with air brakes, while it was in gear. It just jerks the truck.

I don't want to argue the depress vs not to depress in this thread because you guys are right. It is better. But....it is definitely not a must when the truck does not have a mechanical problem. Very few of the millions of over the road trucks are started with the clutch pushed in.

Ferro...you are right. I'm not sure about the smell. She must be wrong. She is pretty good at knowing different automotive smells though. She had thought she smelled brakes before, when it was a clutch. Inside the truck there wasn't much odor. Anyway, I should know this evening. I'll finally have time to get out to the truck and work on it. My friend didn't feel comfortable pushing in the clutch and trying to crank the engine. He wanted me there.

 

[Ferroequinologist]

I hope that you find the engine fires right up- and you just need a 'new' transmission. Please keep us posted. I just PMed you my cell- that way you can call out there if you get a question right away or need to to know about something then, not when you get back to a computer.

I know how it is too, my friend John is an OTR driver, and I had to break him of his semi truck habits when I was teaching him to drive my m818- just as he had to break me of my pickup and medium truck habits when teaching me to drive a semi.

 

[JJensen]

Ferro, I hope that it fires right up too. Thank you for PM'ing your number. I'll be there about 6pm central time today. Driving a new model semi or medium duty is definitely much different than driving a M35. I'd love to put power steering an a true air brake system on this truck.

I'd probably have a little better pre diagnosis, but my technical diagnostic skills weren't quite right when the truck quit running. I was on the side of I-70 near St. Louis, 4 lanes of very heavy traffic, and my fiance was almost in full panic mode when I told her that she was going to have to drive the dodge and pull me. Also keep in mind, I had ZERO reason to try and actually start the truck with the way the truck shut off LOL. I knew it was serious enough that revving the engine wouldn't get it to "clean up" like an old chevy When we got off I-70 I just barely touched the start button to confirm that that something had broken, or locked up. By the time we got back to KC, watered and fed horses, washed everything off, I needed to get home to get ready for a busy Monday.

I'm late getting started working for the day. I'll talk to you tonight. Thanks again.

 

[JJensen]

One more quick thing on pushing in vs not pushing in the clutch during starting. Again this is not to argue, just to show a different thought process on the starting procedure.

When you push in the clutch during starting, you load the crank to the front of the engine, against the thrust bearing. The only thing saving that bearing is the little amount of oil residue that hasn't ran off while it has sat. This is really bad if it has set for a week or maybe even a month. So each time you start the truck, it wears on that thrust a little more. Is it causing much damage???? Some say that it does, and over time creates a problem, especially when we try to get 1 million miles out of an engine.

Is there a little additional strain on the starter with the clutch out (not depressed)? Ya, maybe a little. I can tell you that there is MUCH more strain on the starter when you start a cold truck when its 30 degrees or colder outside. Even with them plugged in, it is hard on the starter because of the cold batteries and the thick engine oil. I can not hear a difference in my Kenworth during starting with the clutch in or out, but anyone could hear the difference when the engine is cold and not cold. What about an automatic diesel? Like a CAT with an Allison? Those starters have to not only crank the engine, but rotate all of the weight of a torque converter. Ever picked up a large converter? They are HEAVY. That is a large load on the starter. Much more than what a manual trans in neutral is.

So, I will continue to start my trucks with the clutch out (but now I will be sitting in the seat of the Deuce in case of emergency and I need to shut it down). I'd rather replace a starter, if it were to happen to have a problem, than to have to put a thrust bearing or even a crank in the engine.

 

[SETOYOTA]

subscribed

 

[rrrr]

Where did the truck end up at. I'll be back in town around 6pm. If you need some help let me know. Send me a pm and I'll send you my cell number.

 

[tigger]

I've been driving large trucks for a long time, 6 days a week for 10+ years, and have never pushed the clutch in when starting. My newest kenworth has over 200K miles without a single problem. My brother owns 6 semi's, and 2 medium duties, he said has never pushed the clutch in when starting. The transfer station where we all dump our trash has 32 trucks. Each one is started every morning, and none of them get the clutch pushed in during starting. They just do a walk around to each one quickly. We all stand outside the truck during starting. We stand on the step, fire them up and look at the oil pressure. We then get out and air tires, fold tarps, load chains, etc....

NOW, with this truck I need to get back into the habit of depressing the clutch while cranking like a regular pickup. I wouldn't want it to run away if something locked up or went wrong. I've seen guys crank a big truck with air brakes, while it was in gear. It just jerks the truck.

I don't want to argue the depress vs not to depress in this thread because you guys are right. It is better. But....it is definitely not a must when the truck does not have a mechanical problem. Very few of the millions of over the road trucks are started with the clutch pushed in.

Ferro...you are right. I'm not sure about the smell. She must be wrong. She is pretty good at knowing different automotive smells though. She had thought she smelled brakes before, when it was a clutch. Inside the truck there wasn't much odor. Anyway, I should know this evening. I'll finally have time to get out to the truck and work on it. My friend didn't feel comfortable pushing in the clutch and trying to crank the engine. He wanted me there.

If you are asked to start your truck by a dot officer and you do not push in your clutch you just failed your inspection . that is the last thing im going to add to this because if you argue with a truck driver you will soon realise it is like throwing a pig in mudd " they like it"

 

[big1096]

If you are asked to start your truck by a dot officer and you do not push in your clutch you just failed your inspection . that is the last thing im going to add to this because if you argue with a truck driver you will soon realise it is like throwing a pig in mudd " they like it"

When I was working DOT only the chicken**** guys did stuff like that. Unfortunately there were LOTS of those guys.

Back to the originally scheduled thread....

 

[PaulbusMax]

Waiting' on the pics and story of what happened here......eager to see "who's right"!

 

[JJensen]

Tugger, I'm not a truck driver LOL. I do drive a truck, because I own and operate a roll-off dumpster business. I've got a college degree in automotive technology and engineering, was a cobol computer programmer for DST for a number of years, worked for Jasper engines, and was race support at Procharger superchargers. DO NOT compare me to some meth head truck driver.

Now I was wrong with my pre-diagnosis. The night it happened 2 of us looked everything over and could see nothing obvious. I checked everything previously mentioned in this thread and everything was good. I was then telling my friend that the only thing weird was a little oil on the back side of IP. Well I shined the light a little differently tonight to show him and we both saw it at the same time.

Everyone that guessed that it was an engine failure was correct. I haven't taken anything apart, but part of the rod is hanging out of the side of the block. The cap and rod bolt are missing. I don't know if the failure was due to an oiling issue, or if it was a rod bolt failure. Ferro told me that rod bolt failure is fairly common because frequently during rebuilds the bolts were over tightened/over stretched.

So, all you guys that said ENGINE can now say "I told you so" LOL. Sorry, but you don't get a prize. I guess that I was in denial and wanted it to be anything but the engine.

I attached a pic for all you carnage lovers. It really isn't that spectacular though. It will probably look better when I take the pan off.

Now I have to decide what to do for a replacement. Do I trust someone selling one that was supposedly running? Do I buy a truck that is running, but has a rough body? My friend owns a machine shop, and I could freshen a "good" engine.

What do you guys think?

Thanks again for everyone that offered advice, information, PM'd and also Ferro for offering tech support over the phone. I appreciate everyone's input, other than tugger's.

 

[hndrsonj]

I gotta ask, how did you miss that? Well at least engines are all over.

 

[Josh]

Spend the extra and buy an LDS engine for it. Moar power.

 

[JJensen]

I gotta ask, how did you miss that? Well at least engines are all over.

LOL! We both said the same thing. We couldn't believe that both of us missed it. It is actually hard to see it where it is on the block. That, and when we looked the night that it happened we had been awake for almost 48 hours, it was 27 degrees, and we were just ready to get the truck home. Tonight I started working in order like others had listed. I checked clutch, trans, generator, air compressor, and then went back to looking for ANYTHING. I can't believe it, but no oil was dripping from that spot after it happened. I posted the picture that I took 5 minutes after it ventilated itself. There was oil from the bell, and out of the crankcase vent.

I was going to start bobbing this weekend, but I suppose I'll take the engine out first.

 

[hndrsonj]

Seems like a very good reason to strip it down to the frame and repaint/bob.

 

[JJensen]

Spend the extra and buy an LDS engine for it. Moar power.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

Seems like a very good reason to strip it down to the frame and repaint/bob.

I definitely like that idea. I think my fiance will kill me though. She was really looking forward to riding in it. She has her first fitness/figure contest in April. Her and some of the other girls wanted to dress in little camo shorts and tops and take pics with the finished truck.

Other than the windowed block, the truck appears to be in very good condition.

 

[nk14zp]

Not all truck drivers are meth heads!

 

[JJensen]

Not all truck drivers are meth heads!

I know that. And not all meth heads are truck drivers. Please don't take my post the wrong way. I'm saying that I shouldn't be compared to the low end truck drivers. There are a lot of us that drive trucks to earn a living, that aren't typical "truck drivers". We all know the type that the reputation is built from, and I'm far from being one of them. The meth head part was just for dramatic effect. LOL.

 

[nk14zp]

Sorry about your ventilated block. I'm sure there are some out there. Great time for a 6bt swap.

 

[gimpyrobb]

If you can't find what you want near you, PM me. Sorry about your induction.